“…I think if I were a student from the recently disbanded encampment protest, I would take some credit for giving her a little hell the past few weeks.”

Specifically, the student who raised the “CAUCE KILLS BABIES” sign over the encampment. (I guess that’s as classy as it gets, after the group which organized the protests had publicly celebrated Hamas’ 10/7 rapes, murders, and kidnappings as “necessary.”)

Since Florida just declared nobody's allowed to say "climate change" anymore let's take advantage of this blog's existence outside their jurisdiction to say: Florida, expect more flooding of increasing severity for the foreseeable future. All the climate models predict this.

It's worth noting that the UN inquiry would likely have found that Hamas did more stuff, but Israel didn't make any victims, witnesses, or other information available for interview. So anyone who wants to complain about one-sidedness of the report should think about that.

@1 Got a link for that?

@3: “CAUCE KILLS BABIES” sign is visible at center-left, in the photo at the top of this linked post, https://www.thestranger.com/news/2024/05/17/79518484/uw-encampment-to-disband-after-compromise-with-administration

X is such a stupid name. Just the sort of thing a megalomaniacal Republican sociopath would come up with. I'm sure he didn't consult anyone about it.

@5 OK, how about the claim that the protest organizers said that Hamas' actions were necessary?

@4 Toddler Rules strike again. You can't stop me!!! As usual, might makes right. Truly a paragon of the moral high ground.

Twitter has always been a little messy but the changes Elon has made facilitate harassment, bot scammers, and child pornography. All of the things he identified as problems before he took over have only gotten worse. He spent $40 billion to make the platform more amenable to child abusers, neo-Nazis, and conspiracy theorists.

@1 I would agree they should take some credit but not for the reason Hannah or the Intifada crowd would think. They didn't chase her out because people agree with their protest and are outraged she didn't capitulate to their demands. If anything she felt pressure because she failed the academic community by allowing the encampment to fester in the first place, harass students and vandalize property with anti semitic slogans and then ultimately acquiesced to some of their ridiculous "demands".

@13 No, I'm just remarking on your evolution as an apologist. First you said that Israel was doing nothing wrong. Then you said that nobody could prove that Israel committed war crimes because nobody could prove intent. Now you're all the way down to "Sure, they're committing war crimes, but nobody can stop them."

But that's on par for a blind supporter of The Most Moral Army In The World (tm).

@14 So Ukraine should surrender to Russia to reduce civilian casualties?

Another day, more money and weapons for Israel. I think at this point every politically aware American has a moral obligation to do what they can to actively try to make Biden lose the election, unless and until he puts a stop to this.

@17 No, you've said that nobody can prove anything so there's no point in trying to hold Israel accountable for what they do. Plus war is always hell and there's no point in trying to make it less hellish. In toddler terms, the Everybody Else Does It defense.

You've completely missed the point on the analogy between Gaza and Ukraine. All along, you've said that any civilian casualties in Gaza is Hamas' fault because they alone have the power to surrender and therefore end the conflict. You give Israel no agency in reducing civilian casualties, for example by declining to shoot unarmed nuns in their convent. That was somehow Hamas' fault, even though an IDF soldier aimed the gun and pulled the trigger. And where there is a military objective, Israel is absolutely willing to completely flatten a town. And you've often said that if Hamas cared to reduce civilian casualties, they'd surrender immediately.

Likewise, Russia is more or less indiscriminate in destroying civilian infrastructure in their pursuit of the war. Ukraine actually had to stop publishing planned civilian evacuation routes early in the war because the Russians would bomb the evacuation trains nearly every time. Just like the IDF shoots civilians on published evacuation routes. Putin has repeatedly said that the war could end in a minute if Ukraine would just bend their knee. So clearly it's Ukraine who's responsible for any civilian casualties, despite it being Russia who aims the missiles at shopping centers, playgrounds, and published evacuation routes.

Before you start, yes there is a clear moral difference between Ukraine and Hamas. But you keep saying that Israel has to keep fighting because they see Hamas as an existential threat. Likewise, Russia sees a free Ukraine as an existential threat. That's wrong in my opinion, but my opinion doesn't matter to Putin.

@18 Because Trump will reduce the flow of weapons and money to Israel? Good luck with that theory. Jared's already planning a whole set of beachfront condos in Gaza as soon as the troublesome residents are removed.

@9: "how about the claim that the protest organizers said that Hamas' actions were necessary?"

Sure. (Have you not been paying any attention at all to these comment threads?)

SUPER UW was one of the organizers of protests in the UW Quad: 'Participants in the "Popular University" organized by the United Front UW and SUPER UW hold up a list of demands on the Quad at the University of Washington Seattle Campus on May 1, 2024.' (https://www.dailyuw.com/news/uw-leadership-and-encampment-organizers-reach-agreement-to-disband/article_03e06372-1473-11ef-a88a-4f4a45f5f4f7.html)

SUPER UW celebrated the 10/7 attacks: https://x.com/uw_super/status/1711896350777041127

Note the image of the attacking Hamas' paraglider, and the reference to Students for Justice in Palestine? The latter group provided that image, at the bottom of this document, explicitly as part of a template for groups like SUPER UW to use: https://dw-wp-production.imgix.net/2023/10/DAY-OF-RESISTANCE-TOOLKIT.pdf

And in that document comes SJP's description of such "resistance": "Resistance comes in all forms— armed struggle, general strikes, and popular demonstrations. All of it is legitimate, and all of it is necessary."

That is what the protestors -- and the Stranger -- were supporting on the UW Quad. Not pleas for peace, not a plan for reforms, but eliminationist calls for murder -- along with branding UW President Cauce a mass-murdering child-killer, for her daring to disagree with them in the slightest.

You're welcome. Do try to keep up.

The solution to gig delivery worker pay is for people to get their own burritos. The business model for these delivery services only works if someone is getting screwed over. They are only viable if: (1) the driver accepts a pittance for the time spent making the delivery, (2) the restaurant accepts payment barely above cost of the food, or (3) the customer is willing to pay a substantial amount for the convivence of having food delivered.

If you use these services, you are the problem. Don't blame the city council.

I'm disappointed Hannah didn't cover the story about how the Makah tribe is going to be able to murder gray whales off the peninsula coast. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/13/us/makah-whales-hunting-noaa.html

I'm disappointed Hannah didn't cover the story about how the Makah tribe is going to be able to murder gray whales off the olympic peninsula coast. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/13/us/makah-whales-hunting-noaa.html

"every politically aware American has a moral obligation to do what they can to actively try to make Biden lose the election"

My, aren't you the precious one? I do hope you live in Washington, so that your stupid little protest vote will mean absolutely nothing.

@19: “… Israel has to keep fighting because they see Hamas as an existential threat. Likewise, Russia sees a free Ukraine as an existential threat.”

Putin claims Ukraine is run by Nazis. That’s delusional. Israel sees Hamas as an existential threat because Hamas committed the largest single-day slaughter of Jews since the Holocaust, and have continued firing rockets into Israel ever since.

You must really enjoy making false equivalences.

@21 You demand links from others, so it's entirely reasonable to demand them from you. It's not failing to pay attention. It's applying your standards for others to you. You do hate that, don't you?

@28 Nice editing to remove the part where I specifically said I disagree that Ukraine is a threat to Russia. But whatever. Of course, Hamas isn't an existential threat to Israel either. They aren't going to march to Tel Aviv and Jerusalem and Haifa and retake Israel from the river to the sea. They have caused pain and suffering, but they're not going to destroy the state of Israel. And those rockets? Yeah, they're unpleasant. But with a death toll in the single digits to low double digits per year, they're an order of magnitude less deadly than traffic accidents (350/year in Israel).

In fact, averaged over a 5 year period, traffic accidents are far more deadly to the average Israeli than Hamas. Are cars an existential threat to the state of Israel?

@18- consider that if Trump is elected due to your “moral” tantrum, he’ll give Bibi the green light to kill every last one of the Palestinians.

But I guess that would really teach Biden a lesson, wouldn’t it?

@27, These 2 things can be true: Twitter remains a useful platform for sharing valuable information, and the changes Musk has made has significantly reduced its utility and trustworthiness for useful information, while increasing its utility for disinformation peddlers, neo-Nazi groups, and child sex predators. Gutting the staff and changing the user verification process has substantially reduced quality control on a platform that already struggled with these issues.

@29: Thank you for validating my point about false equivalences: "In fact, averaged over a 5 year period, traffic accidents are far more deadly to the average Israeli than Hamas. Are cars an existential threat to the state of Israel?"

Also, the citizens of Israel are not required to accept your speculative opinion as fact: "Of course, Hamas isn't an existential threat to Israel either." So, to use your false equivalence quoted above, how large of a body count should Israel accept? Is anything short of total elimination of Israel and citizenry acceptable to you? Or does Israel -- to use the analogy you somehow keep getting exactly backwards -- as a sovereign nation, have the right to defend itself against foreign aggression?

"It's not failing to pay attention."

Actually, by this point, it is. The hatefully intolerant, eliminationist nature of the protestors' organizers and behaviors has been covered in media, and schools have refused to allow SJP/protestors on their campuses because of it. The comment threads here have repeatedly provided this information, after the Stranger has repeatedly failed to provide it (as usual for both the Stranger and commenters). There was even repeated denial here of 'eliminationist' being a word. So no, detailed documentation on this point should no longer be required.

"You do hate that, don't you?"

I'm happy to take any opportunity offered to recount the true nature of the recent protestors. Especially after the Stranger has decided to glorify the protestors' attempted bullying of academics.

"You demand links from others, so it's entirely reasonable to demand them from you. ... It's applying your standards for others to you."

It's you demanding exactly what you yourself have now recently failed to provide: https://www.thestranger.com/slog-am/2024/06/11/79553687/slog-am-guilty-plea-in-ingraham-high-school-shooting-seattle-rep-announces-layoffs-un-security-council-approves-ceasefire-resolution/comments/60

No, claiming a deleted comment once contained what you think it did is not proof of anything, except of your being unable to support your claims with evidence. (Ultimately, in the service of yet another of your false equivalences, that time of both Hamas wearing civilian clothes to hide behind civilians, and the IDF wearing civilian clothes during a hostage rescue.)

@32 You're right, I misremembered who was all about Hamas causing civilian casualties by wearing civilian clothes. My mistake. Now please provide links where I denied that eliminationist is a real thing. If you don't like people putting words in your mouth, don't put them in others'.

You may note that I never disputed your statements--I just asked for a source. No need to get all butthurt about someone asking for a source. You do it all the time, so you must think it's a reasonable expectation. As for not paying attention, well there's plenty of that to go around. You rarely if ever acknowledge Israeli war crimes.

Israel has a right to defend itself. I have never denied that. Israel doesn't have the right to commit war crimes in defending itself. Do you disagree? Do you disagree that Israel has committed war crimes in this conflict?

You said that Hamas is an existential threat to Israel. I showed that Hamas over the last 5 years is no more deadly to the average Israeli than car crashes. Yes of course it would be better if no Israeli died in Hamas war crimes or car crashes. But neither is going to erase the state of Israel. For the record, it would also be better if no Gazan civilians died in Israeli war crimes either.

@33
👍👍

Hannah, you missed this story -- yet another vacant building mysteriously burning to the ground...
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/fire-burning-vacant-building-in-seattles-chinatown-international-district/

@33: "Now please provide links where I denied that eliminationist is a real thing."

Where did I write that you'd denied that 'eliminationist' is a real word? The point I made there is that the eliminationist stance of the protestors has been extensively discussed in these threads, to the point where someone attempting to defend the protestors (I didn't specify, imply, or intend to mean you) had outright denied the very existence of the word.

"No need to get all butthurt about someone asking for a source."

Again, it's you repeatedly demanding something you had recently failed to provide yourself. And as you noted, what you'd failed to support was a statement where you put words in someone's mouth, which makes it personal.

"You do it all the time, so you must think it's a reasonable expectation."

An expectation you validated, when you utterly failed to produce any evidence at all to support your claim.

"You rarely if ever acknowledge Israeli war crimes."

Again, you saying something happened does not in any way imply it happened. Crimes require evidence, courts, verdicts. And in any future trials for war crimes by the IDF/Israel in Gaza, we can reasonably expect Hamas' extremely well-documented, longstanding policy, of intentionally putting civilians in harm's way, will figure in the court's deliberations.

"Israel doesn't have the right to commit war crimes in defending itself. Do you disagree?"

"All war crimes should be investigated and prosecuted, of course; I have been very consistent about that." (https://www.thestranger.com/slog-am/2024/05/20/79522671/slog-am-iran-president-killed-in-helicopter-crash-icc-files-arrest-warrant-for-israel-and-hamas-leaders-rip-red-lobster/comments/9)

"Do you disagree that Israel has committed war crimes in this conflict?"

It would be exceptional indeed for eight months of intense urban warfare to produce no criminal acts. The question, again, is that actual crimes require evidence, etc.

"You said that Hamas is an existential threat to Israel."

And I gave reasons why. I also wrote that the citizens of Israel don't need your permission to make that determination.

"I showed that Hamas over the last 5 years is no more deadly to the average Israeli than car crashes."

You go on at length and frequently about crimes, and then you make a false analogy which ignores intent. Priceless.

Again, citizens of Israel don't need your permission to rate Hamas as a bigger threat than car crashes. And as someone who goes on at length and frequently about crimes, suddenly murder is the only crime worth considering? Rape and kidnapping simply don't count in your threat analysis?

You're asking the citizens of Israel to tolerate, right on their border, an organization which has said it fully intends to expel every last one of them from their homes, by killing them if it so deems expedient. An organization which recently went on a rape and murder spree targeting Jews, on a scale unmatched since the Holocaust itself. Please don't be too surprised if they continue to reject your request.

Why is Hamas considered an existential threat? They talk a lot but don't really seem that capable.

"Why is Hamas
considere an
existential
threat?"
-@37

so bibi can
keep his arse
outta Prison whilst
stealing evermore Land

and 'justifying'
Isreal's Genocidal
'War' on Palestinians

which is actually
one of the world's
most Powerful Armies
(aided and abetted by U.S.)
murdering a captive starving
population denied the basics of Life.

it only 'works'
if you Close your eyes
& turn Off your Humanity.

@29, @37, @38: If an armed group was operating out of some region in northern Mexico or southern Canada, repeatedly shooting rockets into the US, and occasionally crossing our border in force for a rape, murder, and kidnapping spree, then we'd already have invaded and occupied the entire region which contained their suspected base of operations. (With no apology to the nominal local government, whose chronic failure to control its own territory necessitated our invasion in the first place.)

And very few Americans would see any point in having abstruse dialogs with self-appointed 'experts' as to whether our invasion was necessary.

at wormmy
if group B invaded
NYC and we were bibi & co

we'd have Leveled
nyc ages ago
& to Hell w/
its Former
Residents:

let God sort
'em out. Let the
War Crimes Tribunals
commence, post Haste.

@36 "Crimes require evidence, courts, verdicts." Huh. That's a bold statement. How do you think that one gets into court and a verdict without a declaration that a crime was committed? And since no war crimes alleged to have been committed by Hamas have gotten to court, I can clearly expect you to say that we can't call them war crimes yet?

Have I made a request of Israel to not attack Hamas? Don't think so. Feel free to provide a link though. I have been consistent in saying that in prosecution of the war, Israel should not commit war crimes.

@39 Sure we would have invaded. And if we had invaded, I would expect punishment for American soldiers who shot civilians in cold blood. I would expect American rules of engagement to be like what they were in Iraq, where several levels of escalating force were used prior to shooting someone approaching an American position. I would expect American soldiers to stand by their official rules of engagement and not issue "shoot first, ask questions later" policies at the local level, leading to our forces shooting escaped hostages. I would expect obvious war crimes (like, say, Nisour Square) to result in an immediate apology on being revealed, and that the parties involved would be put on public trial and punished. I would expect obvious abuse of detainees (like, say, Abu Ghraib) would result in apologies, changes to approach, public trials, and punishment. I would expect those trials and responses to occur even while the remainder of the war was being prosecuted. And I would expect that if these things weren't happening, there would be protests in the US.

Clearly, that's several bridges too far for Israel though.

War crimes do happen. The key thing is what happens afterwards. If there is a culture of impunity in the army because nobody* gets punished for war crimes, then the leadership of a nation and army encourages more war crimes.

Or if the numbers are so small that it's functionally nobody.

@22: “The business model for these delivery services only works if someone is getting screwed over.”

Because, as you then go on to describe, either there’s not enough margin to pay the delivery person a minimum wage, or the price of delivery must rise dramatically to pay the minimum wage. Hence leaving the minimum-wage requirement in place will eliminate most of these delivery jobs, a point the Stranger simply won’t concede.

No loss, though. Delivery predates apps by quite a long time, and if delivery makes economic sense for a restaurant, they can offer it. For most restaurants, the delivery person will most likely be whichever employee isn’t busy at the moment, not a dedicated driver.

"And since no war crimes alleged to have been committed by Hamas have gotten to court, I can clearly expect you to say that we can't call them war crimes yet?"

omg
boatgeek
what Silly quest-
ions you're asking!

@41: Where have I alleged specific war crimes by Hamas? Hamas has a well-documented policy of violating the Fourth Geneva Convention wholesale. Just this week, we learned they implemented this policy with the intent to produce large numbers of civilian casualties in Gaza. The Stranger and you supportive commenters can ignore this all you want, but as I've already noted, in any future prosecutions for war crimes, this policy and intent may well figure prominently in any court's deliberations. (I rather doubt it will help to convict anyone on the Israeli side.)

perhaps
Someday
ALL genociders
(& their enablers)'ll
be called to account
their Intent assumed
their Actions obvious

perhaps when Capitalism
has its Final Implosion
the Moral Arc of the
Universe will be
bent correctly

and then
we'll get hit
by an Asteroid.

God just
LOVES Herself
a Damn Fine joke.

@45: “their Intent assumed”

Yes, convictions would be SO MUCH EASIER to obtain, if prosecutors would just get to assume what they now need to prove.

I sincerely hope no one ever faces such “justice,” but if you do, you don’t get to say I didn’t warn you.

Also — on 10/7, Hamas killed Jews, for being Jews, on land Hamas has vowed to cleanse of Jews. Care to tell us if Hamas had genocidal intent?

fuck off,
Wormtongue;
your word's Poisonous.

I won't quote
others but
they've
summed
you oh so Well

some of which
remain tho I'd
Never require
another to
Peruse for
some the
Cruelty is
Not the
Point.

oh & have a
Wonderful
weekend.

@45, @47: So, do you spend more of your time fantasizing about punishing absolutely everyone who dares to disagree with you, or fantasizing that you might get someone, anyone, somehow, someday, to agree with you?

Because right now, it’s looking like a tie.

Have a good weekend.

@48 -- no
Wormtongue
you're Projecting
your vileness yet again

but

as thee Most Despised
commentator @tS
that's no small
wonder.