when the Richest
man on the Planet
sucks off a fellow Fascist
on his 44 BILLION dollar anti-
social anti-socialist anti-commie
pigpen you just Know democracy's
about to meet its bitter end. & so it goes

Elon's attempts to simulate being among a group of Great Men© discussing heady topics in a well appointed room fall flat even when the equipment is being competently operated, if we're being honest. Probably for the best.

If there's no anti-loitering bill for an area of high prostitution, then by what legal cause can an officer use to help to stop underage girls from being sexually sold on the sidewalk?

@3:

There are plenty of laws already on the books to cover that particular situation: kidnapping, exchanging sex for something of value, soliciting, patronizing, using a third party to facilitate sexual services, age of consent, permitting or promoting prostitution or travel for prostitution - just to name a few off the top of my head.

If the po-po are unable to effectively utilize the plethora of anti-prostitution laws already at their disposal, I honestly don't see how adding yet another law they won't effectively use will make any appreciable difference.

@3 - putting pimps in prison for a very long time would be a great start. The girls being trafficked are victims, too. But their pimps/traffickers are purely and simply the scum of the earth.

The Stranger: "Elon Musk sucks! (Here's a bunch of Twitter links.)"

@3 if there's no law criminalizing people who've been assaulted/robbed/raped how will police ever stop those who commit assaults, robberies and rapes?

F Russia
F Musk
F the Bleached Combover Pompadour Narcissist
F the Drift Racers in the park at midnight last night
F the plane that flew so low over my house it woke me up at 3 am

@4 you would need to catch them engaging in those acts before you could detain them which is much more time consuming and costly

@5 the only way you convict the pimps is to have the people they are exploiting testify against them.

These laws aren't perfect but they give police a change to engage with these workers and hopefully lead to their traffickers and pimps. Beyond that though it allows the police to clear these areas so that people living and working there are not subjected to this activity on a daily basis. As usual the focus in completely on the offender and not on the people impacted by their activity. I think the benefit to the public good far outweighs the concerns listed by the activists groups. Their solution like homelessness is to let the exploitation, trafficking and public health issues continue unabated until such time that people who are generally incapable of acting rationally (either due to drug/mental health issues or threats of violence) magically change their outlook and seek out help.

@9 "Their solution ... is to let the ... issues continue unabated until such time that people who are generally incapable of acting rationally (either due to drug/mental health issues or threats of violence) magically change their outlook and seek out help."

No, of course it's much better for the state to decide who is "incapable of acting rationally" and make their decisions for them. Specifically by having armed state agents curtail their liberty. I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free!

@9: The US Department of Justice literally offers a detailed guide on operating a sex trafficking task force in order to take down traffickers and pimps...which our "tough crime" mayor and council could direct SPD to implement.

It includes none of the silliness in this legislation, and, more to the point, here's how it emphasizes the ins and outs of dealing effectively with sex workers:

"Trauma affects how victims see themselves, their worldview, and relationships. These beliefs affect how victims respond to services and the criminal justice system and underscore the importance of task forces taking a trauma-informed approach, not only through service delivery but also throughout the investigation and prosecution process.

Both the criminal justice and victim services systems can inadvertently re-traumatize. Taskforce member responses that can lead to re-traumatization include–

Not having time to consider options; arrests, lack of choice in housing or service provision can create a feeling of a lack of control for victims.

Enforcing power dynamics; not allowing victims to make their own choices related to services, engaging with law enforcement and/or prosecution. This can cause victims to feel threatened or even attacked."

This legislation is counter-productive to effective sex trafficking interdiction. It's like the Council wants to do the real bad guys a favor.

Loitering is such a vaguely defined “crime” that it’s practically a blank check to the police to harass, detain, or arrest anyone existing in public space. These kinds of laws were written after the civil war to give the police just cause to arrest black men. It takes a complete lack of imagination to look to the reconstruction era to curtail activities that are already criminalized under multiple statutes, unless giving the police a blank check is the whole point.

@10/11 you're right of course. Let's make perfect the enemy of the good because that is the Seattle way. In the meantime the people living and working around these areas can get bent because who cares about them anyway. Just shut up and pay your taxes right?

@13 your error is thinking this proposed legislation is "good"

@13, This is just an appeal to your emotions that doesn’t even attempt to explain why more laws are needed when others already exist.

@14 by all means continue with your smug superiority while residents continue to be impacted by this activity and those involved continue to be exploited. I can only assume you don't live in these areas so you can be indifferent to others concerns.

@16 Let's try this one more time. The solution is for SPD to use the DOJ manual to work on the problem of prostitution. You know, by doing what's effective. The solution is not to do something counterproductive. If the Council wants to actually solve the problem, they'd direct SPD to use the DOJ manual in the highest impacted areas.

But that's not what they'll do because the effective work takes time. Instead, they'll Be Seen Doing Something (Anything!) and either shift the problem somewhere else or just arrest a raft of people while not getting to the root of the problem.

If they want to make an immediate difference, find out where the prostitutes are taking the johns for sex and then close those places (typically skeezy motels) down. That made an immediate positive difference at 125th and Aurora when the city did that last year.

@16 didn't take you long to abandon the "give police a chance to engage with these workers and hopefully lead to their traffickers and pimps" bullshit

@16, More appeals to emotion with some personal insults added. Try again?

The Orange Turd and Elon Musk are already global plagues.
No surprise there.

Wake me when The Orange Turd, Musk, and all their greedily profiteering fellow MAGAt neofascists get wiped off the face of what's left of the Earth. Now THAT would be news, provided how livable the Earth's condition.
I predict that should we have a dystopian repeat of 2016, all allies of the Deeply Divided States who HAD our back (especially during WWII) will just say, 'fuck it--the US is our enemy now', and point all guns at us. All because ~75 million idiots have no clue how to vote wisely are so stirred up by the Orange Turd's Misinformation Media Circus.

@17 They are following the manual as you say and have produced results:
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/seattle-police-arrest-7-undercover-human-trafficking-operation-aurora-avenue/MBRL2DHI5BHJBNHRMQ7LT3DL6Y/

I don't agree disallowing prostitutes to loiter is counterproductive. CA changed their law a few years ago and have seen sex trafficking increase: https://abc7news.com/ca-loitering-law-sex-trafficking-sb-357-workers/12910562.

You have to do the hard work to get to the real villains but you shouldn't also make it easy for them to operate while you are doing that work. I would support closing down businesses such as skeezy motels but I think you'll also find there are long term residents in those places that will end up homeless. It's trickier than it sounds.

@18 I didn't abandon anything merely responding to your casual brush off as anything I don't agree with is not good

@19 I provided the reason I supported this legislation back in @9. Feel free to respond to that if you don't agree. fwiw the entire premise of repealing these laws was essentially based on emotion (the perceived harm being done to marginalized sex workers)

@13: The issue at hand is not making the perfect the enemy of the good. The legislation is not good. It contradicts best practices for reducing sex trafficking by getting the real bad guys. That's not just zero percent good, it is counterproductive--affirmatively bad. (Unless the goal is indeed something else, like just pushing sex workers around).

@21, The law was repealed because it put sex trafficking victims at greater risk with no impact on the crime itself. That’s not an appeal to emotion, it’s a statement of fact, and one that you at least pretended to care about in your first comment on the topic. If you think it’s good for cops to engage with sex workers to earn their cooperation, arresting them for loitering is counterproductive.

@23 greater risk of what? The only criticism I see of these laws is that it targets marginalized people who are overrepresented in the industry. However that is basically the same excuse activists use to push back against any sort of nuisance ordinance. The issue I have with that reasoning is it is 100% focused on the individual and completely ignores the wider impacts to the community. If you think this type of law is so bad then tell me how you think we can balance the needs of the community while dealing with this. What we are doing today is clearly not working either. Let's be honest, its not going to get "solved" because this is as old as humanity itself so its how do we help people who are being coerced and/or want to get out while not allowing it to fester and impact innocent community members?

@24: "how do we help people who are being coerced and/or want to get out while not allowing it to fester and impact innocent community members?"

Human Trafficking Task Force e-Guide
Office of Justice Programs

https://www.ovcttac.gov/TaskForceGuide/eguide/

@21 Did you read your cite? The cops arrested 7 johns. Didn't touch a single pimp or human trafficker (at least as far as that article says). Try again. And do make a note of where in the DOJ manual it suggests exclusionary areas. You seem to think that's a good idea, so tell us how it aligns with best practices.

The skeezy motels that they closed on Aurora were warned several times to cut off prostitution activity. I would expect that the closures had some reverb through the skeezy motel community, and other motels will be more cooperative to avoid getting shut down. The places on Aurora have re-opened but it doesn't seem to have led to a large uptick in street walkers.

@24, That’s not the only reason the law is bad.

https://www.thestranger.com/news/2024/08/06/79637113/seattles-proposed-prostitution-law-faces-criticism-from-advocates-former-city-attorney

Lol no. Elon Musk isn’t a serious person let alone a journalist. He’s ruined enough already.

Whatever happened to Raindrop?

@30 They got banned, and there’s been a parade of almost lookalikes since.

@30

see:
@28:
ronny
raygun
& the wick-
ed Witch of the West

It’s a little weird to read The Stranger moralizing about sex trafficking. Consider they made a lot of ad revenue from “Backpages” over the years, selling ads for underage sex trafficking victims.

@27 please tell me that isn’t a reference to the quote from Pete Holmes

Musk interviews Trump on X and this country acts like that is totally normal and acceptable. What a sick, vile, vomit inducing, disgusting display of everything that is wrong with this country. This country deserves what it gets.

@31 Banned for what? Raindrop was usually very polite.

@36

He ran afoul of Vivian.

@36, A bunch of troll accounts were wiped out after they left hateful comments on an article about a transgender inmate.

banned
for insisting
gender cannot
be fluid/inconclusive
whilst objecting to 'bad'
words that upset the religulous

banned
for not knowing
that obscenity's in
inhumane actions not
cussing or naked bodies

and
for mean-
spiritied trolling.

banned
but right
Back again.

say
that
Reminds
me: where
is Wormtongue,
Jr aka 'fax'tosuadeyou?

a
more
amoral
commentator
we'll never find in
this wretched hive
of scum & Villainy.

I guess the Raindrop has evaporated.

@40,

He's now posting as Ronald and Nancy (@28, etc.)

@41, Do you have any idea how completely unhinged you sound here? You’re not fooling anyone by talking about yourself in the 3rd person.

It’s not like “raindrop” didn’t have a history of anti-trans comments and vocal support for the targeted harassment of queer people online. This was just the final straw.

You claim to be “concerned” about trans kids consenting to safe medical care while also expressing support for literal domestic terrorists threatening teachers, doctors, and department store employees for supporting LGBTQ youth. Do you care about the kids or do you think they and their families and supporters deserve death threats? It can’t be both, unless you just hate queer people while alleging to be one yourself.

It’s not that deep I’m just making fun of you.

@44 Yup, that's the Raindrop we all know, and we just go
"meh"...

black
and white
day is night

banned
for insisting
gender cannot
be fluid/inconclusive

easy come
& easy go.

@32 kristofarian: Thanks for the warning. I have been trying not to feed the trolls lately.

@35 xina: You can't mean me. I don't do X (formerly known as Twitter). Never have, never will, and I'm not sorry.
I have no use for the Orange Turd's and Elon Musk's self-serving social media circus.