I don’t know about the other crash, but the Korean one might have ended better if there weren’t a fricking CEMENT WALL at the end of the runway.

"so you have no excuse to drink and drive after your midnight toast tonight."

Other than being denied boarding on Sound Transit service being operated by Pierce Transit and on Pierce Transit itself if you are visibly intoxicated.

They don't want the liability if you are injured on the bus, or entering and exiting the bus.

The way to avoid that liability for the taxpayer is simply not to transport your intoxicated ass.

@1, That is a concrete observation.

"Don’t forget that King County Metro, South Transit, Community Transit, Everett Transit, Pierce Transit, the King County Water Taxi and the Seattle Streetcar are all free today, so you have no excuse to drink and drive after your midnight toast tonight.'

but when Today
turns into Tomorrow
at the Bewitching Hour
today'll be Yesterday (then)
and so Will (IF ze buses're Still running)
we have our (free?) rides home tomorow a.m?

"Catch a train, call
a car, or stay
where you
are."

oh.
Okay.
then I'll tote
my tent along too.

hmmm.

will
there be
1/1 am Schweeps?

Happy New Year. Here's a recommendation for a New Year's resolution for The Stranger. Do something about the cesspool that these Slog A.M. comments threads have become, even if that means getting rid of the Slog A.M. comments threads altogether.

It's almost nothing anymore but cranks, crackpots, trolls, and right-wing influencers. It's easy for me to say DFTT, but there are scarcely any more normal commenters (like Catalina @1) I can even say that to. Now it's just the trolls and the cranks feeding off each other in this sort of symbiotic relationship. I guess the one good thing is, it's easy enough for me to just quickly zip through a thread with all the commenters I can just ignore.

Then again, there is a certain "truth" to these comment threads that are the virtual equivalent of a concrete wall descended upon by taggers. They are very much a reflection of our current reality. Welcome to Trump's America.

We are in a pivotal and unprecedented moment in American history:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU3aIpMRRMU

Bernie Sanders has a message for all Americans

@5, Better yet, Noisy Creek should cut their losses on narrative news commentary and strip the operation back to the profit-making parts of the organization which is "Bold Type Tickets" and "Everout."

Problem solved while workers do an even better job of keeping the owner in the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.

@6, Nope. Just for the ones who voted for him, and later for Trump.

See where Bernie's mobilization of the anti-elitists got us? Once he got the anti-elitists off the couch and voting, they had no place to go when he left the Presidential race.

@2 For the 366th day this year, you are full of shit.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/2-security-guards-shot-after-confronting-shoplifting-suspect-in-los-angeles/

Queue the calls by The Stranger to decriminalize theft, in the name of public safety.

@5: Unfortunately, without the "cranks, crackpots, trolls, and right-wing influencers" Slog would be terribly boring.

The only reason to even check in with TS is for the comments. It's the only thing that adds a little perspective and balance to this left wing rag. Crosscut used to have comments but dumped them a few years ago, havn't read it since. Without the comments this blog is nothing more than an echo chamber. If the managment was smart they'd get rid of everything but the ads and bold type. Gives them a chance really clean house (here's looking at you Hannah K.), looks like CM is already gone, thank (insert diety of choice here).

@5: "It's almost nothing anymore but cranks, crackpots, trolls, and right-wing influencers."

But you're a bit of a crackpot yourself, non? 😉

"Better yet, Noisy Creek should cut their losses on narrative news commentary and strip the operation back to the profit-making parts of the organization... "
--@mr magoo

ah
so That
Explains your*
continued insidious
efforts at derailment
here of @derr Schlogg

our resident Cancel
Culturist so Hard
at his work.

well, Hannah
looks like it's ez
to See where to begin

& thnx for the Tunes, Hannah!

*and
perhaps
the Wormtongue's
(our token right winger's)
presence here as well -- the
death knell chorusers here @tS
who've never met a Progressive policy

they'd Ever (publicly)
Agree with except
cynically. duh

@8 "they had no place to go when he left the Presidential race"

So Clinton should have stopped giving speeches to bankers and hedge funders behind closed doors then? and she should have committed to reversing the deregulation, outsourcing and privatization promoted by the other Clinton, perhaps?

Stop blaming voters for the bad choices you make, especially since Clinton knew very well what she was doing. Neoliberal Democrats losing to right wing demagogues who outflank them from the left didn't start with Trump. Reagan did the same thing to Carter and every time you morons keep arguing to move further to the right.

thumpus @13, I appreciate that you have enough self-awareness to read my observation @5 about "cranks, crackpots, trolls, and right-wing influencers" and take it personally.

"Reagan did the same thing to Carter
[right wing demagogues who out-
flank [Dems] from the left] and
every time you morons keep
arguing to move further
to the right." --@ab

perhaps
they're not
nearly as Moronic
as the appear to be
and're merely right of
center neolibs and cons

drowning derr Schlogg
in a bathtub full of
far-right Idolcracy
Ideology and a
little flat-out
Idiocy.

@13, Why not take your suggestion @5, to its next logical conclusion. Eliminate the money losing news commentary in favor what actually is most profitable for the owners of The Stranger. It's not a non-profit.

@13, Just get rid of anything that can be commented on. Problem solved.

@16: Personally, but not seriously. 😄

We need to eliminate access to weapons of war in civilian life:

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/on-e-scooters-and-atvs-russian-forces-swarm-ukrainian-positions-in-the-east/

@20, good answer.

@12,

Charles wrote a piece for the blog just this week dumbass.

@1, it's an airport perimeter wall. Its specific purpose is to keep out-of-control planes from continuing off the runway into the surrounding (and I'm guessing very heavily) populated area.

@6: "Bernie Sanders has a message for all Americans"

Yes, he's been very consistent in not referring to events in Gaza as a "genocide," because he believes that would encourage 'anti-semitism' here at home. (https://www.instagram.com/ahmedeldin/reel/C3aPk--odlY/)

@24, In the U.S. we don't allow homes so close to a runway that a plane sliding off would strike homes. We require bigger buffers.

So the rule is, if some survive, it isn't a genocide?
Would that make attempted holocaust a thing?

@27: It’s entirely possible to commit genocide without killing. Forcibly sterilizing a population could count.

Conversely, there are plenty of mass-murder events which are not genocides. And civilians can die in a war zone with no criminal intent of any kind on the part of anyone.

Labeling the war in Gaza a “genocide” has always been intellectually lazy, morally lazy, and an impedance to ending the conflict there.

@25 Here comes the systematic distraction away from Sanders' progressive message by Netanyahu's resident water carrier whenever Sanders is mentioned here.

Sanders has been consistent in saying that Israel killing 10,000s of Palestinian civilians and destroying Gaza was "horrific, unacceptable and had to be stopped" and the International court of Justice would "decide whether it was genocide". Sanders also wrote bills for congress to stop the US from supplying weapons to Israel and repeatedly asked the Biden administration to stop Netanyahu and his henchmen (that you keep defending in these pages)
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/09/politics/video/israel-genocide-bernie-sanders-collins-source-digvid

"he believes that would encourage 'anti-semitism' here at home"

source? are you lying again?

"Amnesty International’s report demonstrates that Israel has carried out acts prohibited under the Genocide Convention, with the specific intent to destroy Palestinians in Gaza. These acts include killings, causing serious bodily or mental harm and deliberately inflicting on Palestinians in Gaza conditions of life calculated to bring about their physical destruction. Month after month, Israel has treated Palestinians in Gaza as a subhuman group unworthy of human rights and dignity, demonstrating its intent to physically destroy them,” said Agnès Callamard, Secretary General of Amnesty International. 

“Our damning findings must serve as a wake-up call to the international community: this is genocide. It must stop now. [..]

Amnesty International examined Israel’s acts in Gaza closely and in their totality, taking into account their recurrence and simultaneous occurrence, and both their immediate impact and their cumulative and mutually reinforcing consequences. The organization considered the scale and severity of the casualties and destruction over time. It also analysed public statements by officials, finding that prohibited acts were often announced or called for in the first place by high-level officials in charge of the war efforts.

“Taking into account the pre-existing context of dispossession, apartheid and unlawful military occupation in which these acts have been committed, we could find only one reasonable conclusion: Israel’s intent is the physical destruction of Palestinians in Gaza, whether in parallel with, or as a means to achieve, its military goal of destroying Hamas,” said Agnès Callamard.

“The atrocity crimes committed on 7 October 2023 by Hamas and other armed groups against Israelis and victims of other nationalities, including deliberate mass killings and hostage-taking, can never justify Israel’s genocide against Palestinians in Gaza.”
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-international-concludes-israel-is-committing-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/

“The atrocity crimes committed on 7 October 2023 by Hamas and other armed groups against Israelis and victims of other nationalities, including deliberate mass killings and hostage-taking, can never justify Israel’s genocide against Palestinians in Gaza.” --Thanks, "averagebob"!

which's Why
Wormtongue's
Here -- to Continue
bibi's & Biden's War on
Palestine, Genocide or Otherwise

his
Distractions
Not With Standing

tho wormmy can
Justify the Fuck
outta them

like
Any good
Gramamr Nazi.

happy fucking
New Year.

@31 -- Thank you
"averagebob" AND
Amnesty International

@30: lol, figures you’d latch onto Amnesty International! 😃 Amnesty International has opposed every single Israeli military action, without fail, since at least 1990. There is literally no action Israel could ever take in its own defense that Amnesty would not oppose. The reason seems clear: some of Amnesty’s seniormost personnel have opined, in public and in private, that Israel does not deserve to exist as a Jewish state. It’s an organization of Averagebobs! 😂

More sober observers do not believe Israel is committing genocide but is fighting a terrorist organization in Gaza that has refused to segregate itself from the civilian population. This is the position of the US, UK, Canada, Germany, France, Italy, Australia, etc, etc, and it is the correct position. That’s not to say individual war crimes couldn’t have been committed somewhere in the course of the war, but the idea that the war is genocidal in intent or in effect is, as these sober observers remind us, not born out by facts. 😃

@🔨🛴

WTF?

Show us where
averagebob has
EVER writtten here
@derr Schlogg that
"Israel has no right to exist."

you
and your
puppetmaster
are Lying Liars who'll
stop at nothing to schmear any
& all critics of Israel's Ongoing Genocide

when all you have
is lies all you
Have is
Lies.

and
your little troll
for the Wormtongue's
follow-up comment is transparent af

and is meant to
doom comments
here @ts forever cuz
you Hate Progressivism

@34: lol, not so fast with the dodging, kristo. 😉 The question is not whether Israel has a right to exist, but whether Israel has a right to be exist as a Jewish state. It’s that “Jewish state” part that ties some people’s tongues in knots, yours included. 😉

@33 "Amnesty International has opposed every single Israeli military action, without fail, since at least 1990"

The opposite would be surprising since Israel has illegally occupied Palestinian territories and has segregated against Palestinians since 1967 after they waged a campaign of ethnic cleansing since 1948.

You are a liar and an authoritarian thug for saying that people criticize the colonial state of Israel because they are anti-Jew. As far as I am concerned, I said that I wasn't in favor of any kind of ethno states whatsoever since, by definition, they can't be democracies (i.e countries without 2nd class citizens) but that I had no issue with Jews having a state as long as they acquired land with the approval of the current occupants/owners (which is clearly not currently the case for Palestine). I also said that the most realistic solution was a one state where Muslims and Jews lived at peace with one another like they did before the Zionist colonial project interfered with Palestinian right to self determination yet I also said that I didn't know what should happen to Israel since I wasn't a Palestinian.

"Our firsthand observations of the medical and humanitarian catastrophe inflicted on Gaza are consistent with the descriptions provided by an increasing number of legal experts and organisations concluding that genocide is taking place in Gaza. While we don’t have legal authority to establish intentionality, the signs of ethnic cleansing and the ongoing devastation—including mass killings, severe physical and mental health injuries, forced displacement, and impossible conditions of life for Palestinians under siege and bombardment—are undeniable."

GAZA: LIFE IN A DEATH TRAP
Doctors Without Borders
https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/gaza-death-trap-msf-report-exposes-israels-campaign-total-destruction

Parah dear, according to the BBC, lots of people are wondering why that wall was there. Turns out it was a structure that housed some gear that plane use for doing something plane-ish, but the standard is to construct structures like that so that they would give in a plane/structure conflict. Even the airport's officials were questioning it before this tragedy.

NotMyopic dear, aviation is a very standardized industry across the globe. Every airport is supposed to have sizable buffers.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0mvynnxzzmo

Israel’s Crime of Extermination, Acts of Genocide in Gaza
Human Rights Watch

Human Rights Watch concluded that Israeli authorities have intentionally created conditions of life calculated to bring about the physical destruction of Palestinians in Gaza in whole or in part. This policy, inflicted as part of a mass killing of Palestinian civilians in Gaza, means Israeli authorities have committed the crime against humanity of extermination, which is ongoing. This policy also amounts to one of the five “acts of genocide” under the Genocide Convention of 1948. Genocidal intent may also be inferred from this policy, coupled with statements suggesting some Israeli officials wished to destroy Palestinians in Gaza, and therefore the policy may amount to the crime of genocide.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/12/19/israels-crime-extermination-acts-genocide-gaza

@27, The Nazi's liquidated over 1 million Jews per year between 1941 and 1945.

If the goal is Holocaust, the IDF is terrible at it. 453 days in, if the IDF had genocidal intent and the efficiency of the Nazi's, then there should only be about 600,000 Gazans left.

The IDF is using the most expensive, most targeted precision guided bombs. The artillery strikes are on precision targets. They are using penetration and blast munitions, not inexpensive anti-personnel weapons, and not inexpensive napalm. The latter are what you use to take out as many people as possible, and the former, for destroying a specific bunker, command and control location, or fighting position, with as little damage as possible to the wider area.

The IDF has complete command of the air. There is nothing stopping them from committing a genocide from the air. What is missing for them to kill everyone in Gaza? The will to do so.

@40 non sequitur: A statement that does not follow logically from what preceded it

still Waiting
for the Omnicide
to get there mr magoo?

at bibi's pace
it shan't take
much longer.

who
knows
Maybe
eltrumpfster'll
get them there faster

@36: “no issue with Jews having a state as long as they acquired land with the approval of the current occupants/owners (which is clearly not currently the case for Palestine)”

lol, of course, a Jewish state subject to Arab veto. I can see how that would appeal to you!

“the most realistic solution was a one state where Muslims and Jews lived at peace with one another like they did before the Zionist colonial project interfered with Palestinian right to self determination ”

Ha ha, yes, a Jewish state minus Jewish sovereignty! Jews as a disempowered minority in their indigenous homeland! Bob, that’s brilliant, it’s Israel without the, you know, “Israel” part! 😂😂😂

You may not know this, but twenty percent of Israelis are Muslims who do indeed live in peace with their Jewish neighbors in the Jewish state. 😉 But most Arabs prefer to live under Arab sovereignty, and understandably so. Which is why people like myself who respect the right of self-determination believe in two different states for two different peoples. 😁 But that’s because I take indigeneity seriously and don’t believe in ethnic subjugation, unlike the progressive Hamasniks who pick their favorites on the basis of ethnicity. 🤣

@29: Since you're not familiar with Bernie's comments on a topic you've relentlessly addressed for months, I'm more than happy to help you out there. Sen. Sanders made this comment on CNN's State of the Union: "...I think the essential point that Ilhan made is that we do not want to see anti-Semitism in this country. And I think the word 'genocide' is something that is being determined by the International Court of Justice." (https://grabien.com/story?id=470565)

Why would anyone look to a published author and US senator for guidance on use of words?

"Here comes the systematic distraction away from Sanders' progressive message..."

... by daring to mention what Sanders actually said, yes.

"...Netanyahu's resident water carrier..."

Of course. Anyone who disagrees with you in the slightest is The Enemy, and you shall smear appropriately.

Nothing else in @29 contradicts (or even addresses) my point, that abuse of the word "genocide" is part of the problem, not part of any solution. You immediately jumped to name-calling smears when confronted with a single quote from Bernie you happened not to like. If you want anyone to believe your self-proclaimed status as a "democrat" who opposes "authoritarianism," you might want to behave a little less like a loyal Party member who works with Winston Smith at the Ministry of Truth.

@36: Your invective against a supposed "colonial state" in Palestine now might count for something, if only you hadn't approvingly cited the results of flat-out imperialism in Palestine over a century ago. You have absolutely no problem with a foreign imperial power dictating conditions of life on the ground to inhabitants of Palestine, which, again, doesn't support your claims of supporting democracy and opposing authoritarianism.

@39 Does Putin pay you by the word or by the number of comments? 🤣

@43 Respecting the wishes of the people who have continuously occupied the land since the Bronze age, Palestinians, is the absolute minimum as determined by the basic tenet of international law that is the right to self determination. There is absolutely no valid reason to get around that fact, especially not colonial conquest or whatever else you invoke

@44 How come I am not surprised that you are again twisting Bernie's comment to better lie. People should watch the video at your link to get a good understanding of the comments made, although the truncated transcript already shows that you are a bald faced liar. Ilan Omar says that we shouldn't tolerate antisemitism toward Jewish students whether they are pro-genocide or not. In response to the question from that sorry excuse of a reporter who asks Bernie whether he agrees that some students are pro-genocide, Bernie reiterates Ilan's comment that we shouldn't tolerate antisemitism, then he addresses the issue of genocide by saying that we should let the ICJ do its job. Nowhere does he say that he doesn't want to call it 'genocide' because of antisemitism. He also takes the opportunity to point out ethnic cleansing, etc .. One more time, you are showing yourself to be purposefully deceitful. What a piece of work ...

As for the rest of your twisted drivel ...

@45 that's pretty funny coming from a rightwing troll

@46: lol, the only nation that has “occupied the land since the Bronze Age” is the Jews. The nation that calls itself Palestinian is a very, very recent development. You’ve erased 3,000 years of actual Jewish history and invented 3,000 years of imaginary Palestinian history. You are an anti-semite, plan and simple! 😂😂😂

@48 The only people who have continuously occupied Palestine since the bronze age are Palestinian. 8% of which were Jews at the turn of the 19th-20th century. Most Israeli Jews come from 20th century immigration.

"More recent studies since 2017[32][33] have found that Palestinians, and other Levantine people, are primarily descended from ancient Levantines present in what is today Israel and Palestine, dating back at least 3700 years.[34] According to Marc Heber et al, all modern Levantine Arabs descend from Canaanite-like ancestors, whereas later migrations impact on their population ancestry was slight.[35]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians

"Facts are antisemitic" thumpus 2025

"The genocide convention is antisemitic", thumpus 2025

Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

@49-51: “Facts are antisemitic … The genocide convention is antisemitic“

Ha ha, well, anti-semites are anti-semitic. Canaanites aren’t just misspelled Palestinians. 😂😂😂 You’ve had to invent an entire alternate world history to justify your wish to disenfranchise Jews! 🤣🤣🤣

@38, Apparently this airport didn't have buffers and was using a concrete wall as a substitute. How did that work out?

We have a few airports like that in the U.S. E.g. Midway. We, and apparently Koreans, wait for empirical evidence that the buffer, or its substitute, is a killer before changes are made.

@36, "but that I had no issue with Jews having a state as long as they acquired land with the approval of the current occupants/owners."

Do you have a similar problems with the Babylonians or Assyrians establishing a state in Palestine without the permission of the occupants? The Babylonians forcibly removed the occupants of the land at the time of their occupation. Looking at it through that lens, wouldn't what is going on now, the Jews just getting their land back? I mean if they hadn't been ethnically cleansed from the land to begin with, the ancestors of the current Palestinians would have never moved into the land.

I don't mind the influx of "conservatives" onto Slog. People are entitled to their opinions, and I'm entitled to call them on things that I think are nonsense (and if it causes me to look something up to verify my opinion all the better).

I do get tired of the ceaseless talk about the middle east. It's all been said before, usually by the same handful of commenters, and there's nothing that Slog can do about it. If truth be told, I think Russia engineered this whole thing to sabotage the Biden Administration and get trump back in office, which is what happened. And I think that will be an unmitigated disaster for the Palestinians.

Congratulations, planet - we all got played.

@52 I didn't invent that the people we call Palestinians, including 8% Jews, have continuously occupied that land since at least the Bronze age. Your claim that they were called something else or had a different religion back then is IRRELEVANT.

I didn't invent that most Israeli Jews come from immigration that started ~100 years ago. People who have occupied that land for millennia own that land whatever historical claim others have. If you can't admit that a great wrong has been done to Palestinians, we likely won't agree on much else because it;s pretty fundamental

@54 Ancient history is interesting and we can even think about some form of reparation in some cases but we can only prevent the wrong that is happening to people now. War crimes and stealing Palestinian land are occurring in the present not millennia ago. There are still millions of 1948 Palestinian refugees living in camps. Trying to recreate the way the world was 3000 years ago is not only dumb but dangerous as shown by the 100 years of conflict in Palestine. Incredible harm was done to Jews by Europeans during WW2 but it's NOT going to be fixed by Israeli stealing land away and killing other people with the help of Europeans. 2 wrongs don't make a right. I am surprised something this obvious has to be said but it's to you so anything is possible

Oh, boy, more useless arguments on Israel/Palestine that mean nothing and will achieve nothing. Pathetic.

@ I do get tired of it as well although I am even more annoyed by the continuous stream of lying propaganda anytime the Stranger posts anything about the on-going genocide or even out of the blue like in this thread

What happened can very well be explained without invoking Russia. The Palestine issue was completely going under the radar while Israel is de facto annexing the occupied territories, and Arab nations were normalizing their relations with Israel despite their street opinion. Hamas likely felt that actualizing the armed conflict was their best play and the Israeli far right for Greater Israel thinks it's their chance to make it happen

@58 is for @55

@56: oh dear, you don’t understand the first thing about nationality. 😃 Here, I’ll try to put it in familiar terms that might help you understand:

Assuming you’re a white male of Northern European extraction, your ancestors were Vikings. You yourself, however, are not a Viking. There are no Vikings anymore.

Where did the Vikings go? Were they exterminated or something? No they weren’t, and their descendants, including Averagebob, are alive today! But those descendants of Vikings are not Vikings. Instead, they are members of other nationalities.

Compared to the Vikings, the descendants of Vikings speak different languages, practice different religions, live under different laws, follow different traditions and culture, and call themselves by different names. The descendants have different nationalities than Vikings. The descendants are not Vikings. The Viking nation disappeared, even though the Vikings left descendants behind.

Just as you wouldn’t call yourself a Viking, AverageBob, so the Palestinians wouldn’t call themselves Canaanites. Canaan had its own own language, religion, laws, traditions, culture, and national name, none of which modern Palestinians share. Likewise, modern Palestinian languages, religions, culture and so forth would be wholly alien to the Canaanites. The Canaanites wouldn’t recognize their own descendants. They are different nationalities, even though they share the same ancestry.

Palestinians aren’t Canaanites, and Canaanites aren’t Palestinians. Averagebob, you seem to be trying to use blood quantum as a proxy for nationality, but that isn’t how nationality works. (It is how racism works, though, so please do yourself a favor and drop all that blood quantum stuff, AverageBob 😂)

By contrast, the Jews have preserved their language, religion, laws, traditions, customs, and self-naming in Israel from the Bronze Age until the present. The Jews haven’t evolved into new nations the way Canaanites and Vikings have.

Modern Palestinians are not the same nation as ancient Canaanites, but modern Jews are the same nation as ancient Jews.

“But what about Europe!” howls AverageBob, determined to cling to the most Jew-hostile worldview he can find. “Aren’t most Jews immigrants! They’re colonists! Israel was never theirs!”

No, Bob, you’re back to blood quantum again. Nationality doesn’t come from a person’s place of birth. A Jew is a Jew, regardless of wherever born. Israel is the ancient, continuing, and unbroken homeland of the Jewish nation, and the Jewish nation encompasses all Jews born in every corner of the world. It is not colonialism for Jews to move to Israel.

As for the Palestinians, they are not a 3,000-year-old nation, they are a 100-year-old nation. But even a young, emergent nationality deserves respect. And that is why I call for a Palestinian homeland in their indigenous land of Palestine, right alongside a homeland in Israel for the much older indigenous nation of Jews.

Ta-da, I’ve solved world peace and cured Averagebob of anti-semitism and racism! All in a day’s work for thumpus, hero of the Slog!

@58, You keep linking Palestinians potentially loosing territory to Israel with Hamas, as if Hamas is addressing some grievance of Gazans or those in the West Bank.

Hamas is actually prepared to sacrifice all Gazans, West Bankers, and other Arabs that don't support the removal of all infidels from the Holy Land. They are a backlash to Palestinians and other Arabs that back a two-state solution, or any solution that leaves infidels in the land. It's in their charter.

You keep linking Hamas to Palestinians broader grievances and making Hamas some sort of advocate for those grievances, when they are not.

Glancing back at this thread. Really solid comments by:
TheTourGuide @45
Catalina @55
swiftress @58

Responding to swiftress @58: "Oh, boy, more useless arguments on Israel/Palestine that mean nothing and will achieve nothing." For some of these same handles which we see again and again and again, the underlying purpose of these ceaseless comments about the Middle East has absolutely nothing to do with the Middle East. Let me just leave it at that.

@60 Pretty convoluted claptrap that doesn't change anything to the basic facts mentioned earlier, which include the right to self determination for indigenous populations (and no, someone whose ancestry has been somewhere else for more than 40 generations can't be said to be indigenous to Palestine)

@63: Again with the blood quantum racism and anti-semitic denial of nationhood! I tried to warn ya, that stuff is no good, man! 🤪 Anti-Zionists are bad people! 🤣

@62 "Let me just leave it at that."

No need to mention it. It's not like you have ever provided a rationale for the rest of your BS.

@63 Only science denying nitwits would claim that population genetic science is 'blood quantum racism'

I am not denying the existence of Jewish culture and I can't deny the existence of a Jewish nationhood that didn't exist.

@66: “I can't deny the existence of a Jewish nationhood that didn't exist.”

There it is. Progressive Jew-hatred in a nutshell. If I were writing a parody of leftist anti-semitism, I couldn’t have chosen more damning words then the ones Average Bob chose himself. 😁

@67 Here we go again: "Facts are antisemitic" , thumpus 2025

Your comment says a lot more about you and your education than it says about me. You are conflating ethnicity with nationhood. In fact, few Jews wanted anything to do with Israel until ww2, and many still do not want to, which shows that nationhood was a political project in the head of Zionist Jews.

@68: The Jews are indisputably a nation, one of the oldest extant nations on Earth, whose history predates by many centuries anything you would recognize as "Zionism." At all times in their 3,000-year history, Jews have regarded themselves as members of a nation and have been regarded as such by non-Jews. Your attempt to reduce Judaism to a mere culture or a private matter of faith is profoundly anti-semitic.

If you don't like being called an anti-semite, I would suggest you maybe abandon your anti-semitism? Or, I don't know, learn to wear it proudly? 😂 In any event, it's definitely past time to hang up that "anti-racist" label you like to slap on yourself, ha ha ha!

@55 Catalina Vel-DuRay: +1 for the WIN!!

Griz's wish for 2025: Donald Trump, J.D. Vance, Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, MAGA tools ad nauseum all come down with bird flu on Inauguration Day, dropping like flies. Corrupt billionaires and trillionaires officially get flipped the bird. Take that, anti-vaxxers!

"How come
I [ab] am not
surprised that you
[the Wormtngue] are
again twisting Bernie's
comment to better lie." --@46

"Nowhere does he [VT Senator Sanders] say that he doesn't want to call it 'genocide' because of antisemitism. Bernie reiterates Ilan's comment that we shouldn't tolerate antisemitism, then he addresses the issue of genocide by saying that we should let the ICJ do its job.

He also takes the opportunity
to point out ethnic cleansing, etc

One more time,
you are showing yourself
to be purposefully deceitful."

--@averagebob
correcting the Wormtongue's
insidious lying deceitful narrative
whose 'gift' for gab is only exceeded
by a pathologically-obsessive need to'win'

and a hope
for facts-checkers
to buy into his bullshite
which ab Refuses to do &
subsequently gets called out
by cressona, here to boost wormmy's

far 'right' agenda whilst
Orwellianly calling ab
a far right plant].

"What a piece of work ... "

once
again
Danke
"avaragebob."

@46, @72: Yes, Bernie made those two statements consecutively because they had absolutely nothing to do with each other. Because calling Jewish students in America “pro-genocide,” could not possibly inflame anti-semitism here at home.

@57: As the pro-Hamas, pro-Hezbolllah side suffers one defeat after another after another in reality, they fabricate ever-greater historical fictions here. I find that amusing, but I’m also hoping the Stranger finally takes a hard look at such comments, and moderates their own abuse of the word, “genocide.”

speaking of is it Genocide yet?
well, how ‘bout Omnicide?
or maybe just Genocide
Lite? nyt:

Israeli Threat to Banish
Aid Agency Looms
Over Gaza

The U.N. agency known as UNRWA has
been the backbone of aid to Gaza.
Now, Israel is moving to ban it
over accusations that it
shielded Hamas
militants.

To Palestinians, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, or UNRWA, is a critical lifeline, providing food, water and medicine to hundreds of thousands of Gazans who have endured more than a year of war.

To the Israeli government, it is a dangerous cover for Hamas, the armed Palestinian group that led the 2023 surprise attack on Israel.

Now, Israeli legislators have laid the groundwork to ban the agency with the passage of two bills set to take effect this month.

If Israeli authorities enforce the new laws, U.N. officials are warning that no other group will be able to replace UNRWA and that its crucial humanitarian operations in Gaza will grind to a halt at a moment when experts say famine is threatening parts of the territory.

-- by Jack Nicas; Jan. 2, 2025, 5:00 a.m. ET

oodles More:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/02/world/americas/israel-unrwa-gaza-threat.html

Israel:
“what’s a little Famine
among the Vermin, huh?”

yet
WE are
STILL supporting
this Humanitarian Debacle
with OUR (hard-earned!) tax dollar$$$:

TODAY.
RIGHT
NOW.

@73

"I’m [wormmy] also hoping
the Stranger finally takes a hard
look at such comments, and moderates
their own abuse of the word, 'genocide.'"

and
I'm hoping
tS takes a very
long and hard Look
at its insidiously lying liars

here @tS.

@69 All of the unsubstantiated affirmations won't change anything despite your authoritarian tantrums.

If you have decisive evidence that Jews worldwide had collective political identity toward nationhood before the advent of Zionism, show it, otherwise it'll remain the rambling of an ideologue. It is one thing to argue that the historical existence of a Jewish nation beyond ethnicity is a valid question but to claim that skeptics are racist haters is beyond the pale, especially when it is used as an argument to justify colonial expansion and ethnic cleansing of the population (an undeniable racist enterprise) which continuously occupied that region since the Bronze age

@76: Come on now, Wikipedian, it’s in the very first sentence of the article on Jews. 😂 Or you could google “Are Jews a nation?” and read literally any of the responses that google serves up. 🤣

It is not “beyond the pale” to call a “skeptic” of Jewish nationhood a racist hater, because that is what you are! Time to own it! 😂🤣😂🤣

@73 You are a liar, and now you are doubling down on your lie. First, Bernie reiterated Ilan's comment that antisemitism was unacceptable and second he answered (or didn't as it were) the reporter's question about what he thought of the "pro-genocide students" remark by saying "the word genocide is something that is being determined by the ICJ" as he has said several times to TV news. Never did he say that he didn't use 'genocide' "because he believed that would encourage antisemitism" as you affirmed @25 when you attempted to foster divisions between progressives once again. Neither did he imply that he didn't believe it is genocide as he has consistently said that he waited for the ICJ.

"Because calling Jewish students in America “pro-genocide,”"

More lie by omission BS from you. Ilan Omar said "we shouldn't tolerate antisemitism toward any Jewish students whether they are pro-genocide or anti-genocide". The pro-genocide students would be those defending the indefensible, i.e. the genocidal actions of the Netanyahu government, when they weren't busy claiming they felt threatened by the Palestinian POV (also articulated by many Jewish students), which they claimed was antisemitic (sounds familiar) to get administrators to shut it down.

A little reminder that almost all observers found the student protests peaceful and free of antisemitism so don't let tensorna's inevitable nth regurgitation of a few counter examples, as if they were the norm, confuse you.

@76: “If you have decisive evidence that Jews worldwide had collective political identity toward nationhood before the advent of Zionism, show it…”

All together, now:
“Next year in Jerusalem.”

@79: “Next year in Jerusalem”

Ha, I hadn’t even thought of that!

It’s funny, you keep hearing that anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism, but then every anti-Zionist you meet turns out to be an anti-semite!

@78: Alright, for the sake of argument, let's say published author and US Senator Bernie Sanders just threw those two sentences together completely at random, that he meant absolutely no casual linkage between them. He's still refusing to use the word, "genocide," to describe events in Gaza. Therefore, to him, and to anyone who agrees with him, there are no "pro-genocide" students in the United States. Calling anyone "pro-genocide" is hatefully inflammatory rhetoric, and we can call it that any time we hear it.

If you want to present Bernie's words as Revealed Truth, as you did @6, that's your business. Watching you flip instantly into spluttering rage when Bernie says things you happen not to like -- and throwing show-trial accusations at anyone who dares mention Bernie saying things you happen not to like -- merely shows Bernie is not the authority you claimed he was.