welcome Aboard, MHG!
our neolibs & cons're
already Salivating:

Fresh Meat.

oh and it's a
Ski Hotel

What is with The Stranger's California fire coverage?

I thought The Stranger was for as much natural habitat restoration as possible. Shouldn't they be rooting for the fire?

No mention of Elon throwing a Nazi salute, (not once but twice!) at the inauguration?
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/elon-musk-salute-reaction-right-wing-extremists-1235241866/

Democrats in denial over Trump defeat, voters say: ‘Haven’t learned the lessons’
Voters in swing-state Michigan unimpressed with party’s election critique and say fundamental shift is needed

Trump’s decisive victory in Saginaw, a bellwether county that he won in 2016 and then lost four years later, came as a shock to the local Democratic party but not to many of its supporters.

Community leaders in some of the poorest parts of Saginaw, where voter turnout dropped, repeatedly warned that the Harris campaign’s focus on attacking Trump as unfit for office and winning the support of middle class white women, particularly over abortion rights, was alienating a large part of the Democratic constituency simply struggling to pay the bills and looking for economic reform.

[..]

@4 https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/18/democrats-trump-michigan-swing-voters

@4: Well, I’m sure a Trump victory will make all of their lives better now. Good work, gang!

@6 Keep blaming voters for your failure to address their concern and find out.

@4 With 20/20 hindsight, it's easy to say that Democrats ran the wrong campaign. That said, Harris should have learned the lesson of 2016 that just saying that Trump is unfit for office isn't enough.

Of course, your analysis completely ignores the fact that Harris had a raft of economic policies and plans that would have benefited those folks. They just got lost in Republicans claiming that she had no plans until it became an article of faith regardless of reality.

@4 Those folks are about to learn a hard lesson about purity politics. You can’t address every single person’s every concern. But keep defending people who are too shellfish to understand representative democracies.

@3
Did you listen to his speech to be able to put his gesture into context or are you just one of the many people committed to being offended by everything?
The BBC has a decent and reasonably balanced article about it if you’re open to the possibility that you’re wrong.
I doubt you are

Welcome aboard Marcus! Now can we get rid of that insufferable windbag CM?

@10 come on, if he didn't know exactly what he was doing it's the most unlucky coincidence in history. That was a picture perfect Sieg Heil.

https://x.com/StonkKing4/status/1881464662967083114

https://x.com/esjesjesj/status/1881716580876497257

Did you mention Leonard Peltier yesterday or just not at all?

The two genders order is most refreshing to common sense and science. Doesn't negate gender affirming care and isn't transphobic. Indeed, the origin of trans is going from one gender to the other.

Non-binary is not a gender. It's an expression.

This debacle is entirely the responsibility of Sleepy Joe Biden and his corrupt enablers. Any number of younger Democratic Representatives, Governors or Senators could have defeated Trump following an open primary and nominating convention. Whatever his lifetime of accomplishments might be, they are all now a footnote to the coming chaos. I will happily play the role of Madame Defarge as the Democratic Party toadies are trundled to the guillottine. I hate that fucker.

Oops! I overlooked the sentence "The order also prohibits taxpayer dollars from being used for gender-affirming health care" - so strike that part from @14.

@14 You are, of course, insane.

Great news round-up Marcus.

@8 I am not ignoring Harris economic offerings that came well short of being game changers (like medicare for all would be) or Biden's finally breaking with market fundamentalism but it was not sufficient to convince many whose financial situation has grown even more precarious due to inflation. Campaigning while saying the economy was basically great thus ignoring the chasm in economic well being fueled by 50 years of neoliberal policies portrayed a tone deafness that fit neatly into the narrative that Democrats are the party of urban elites.

It's not really 20/20 hindsight since progressives (including here) warned these were major issue during the campaign

@14:

ALL gender is an expression - because gender is a social construct, not a biological one. You should know that by now. And the fact you had to backpedal so quickly on your own statement just goes to show how insidious this really is.

@9 The economic well being of the ~60% who can't make ends meet is not "every single person’s every concern". It's fundamental. May be you are the selfish one, think about it.

10, I found this article where a bunch of historians explain the history of the nazi salute, which was also popular in italy at the time, that closes with a little devil’s advocacy calling it “awkward.” I would still call him fascist even if I were gullible enough to believe the sig heil was unintentional so what now.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy48v1x4dv4o.amp

@14, Gender isn’t science. You’re thinking of biological sex, which is not binary.

It must feel good to finally get to praise Trump after years pretending you’re not into this.

Simple fact;
That while gender is not binary, U.S. elections are. You either tried to elect Harris, or you helped elect Trump.

If you didn't try and elect Harris, you own part of everything that happens during Trump's tenure.

@18 but you spent the better part of 2024 telling us the lack of support for Hamas was the main thing driving voters from the Democrats?

@19: Biological sex = gender

If you disagree, it's a philosophical debate.

@19: Do rhinoceroses express their gender or are they just male or female? If not, then what makes humans so special?

@25, Now you’re just being stupid. Even the most hateful transphobes understand that gender is a social expression of sex that anyone can subvert, they just think trans people believing they are a different gender than their birth sex is a mental illness that can be shamed out of them.

26 ???? do you think rhinoceroses understand what a social construct is? Can you think of any other ways humans are different than other animals? Are you able to wipe your own ass or do you need help with that too?

TS just can’t kick its zombie twitter addiction (every time it looks like they make progress the next writer regresses).

“Meanwhile, Musk, the world’s richest guy, is now in charge of the whole operation, even though his companies have massive government contracts”

So then maybe stop putting money, power, control in Musk - which you do when you use / promote his plaything.

@12
Even the Anti Defamation League is saying it wasn’t a nazi salute.
Awkward? Yes
Nazi? No

30, Buddy, we already covered this. He’s a nazi regardless of whether he accidentally gave the nazi salute or if he’s trolling. It being accidental doesn’t change his support for race science or various far-right political movements globally. If he weren’t simping for fascists there wouldn’t be any reason for you to bend this hard.

Thedonolde
will NOT be stopping at
stomping on the Transgendered

LGBQetal're a bit
more Difficult for the
Reichwing to erase but once
they get up a head of Steam there'll
be No Slowing them Down -- off-Whites
'Intellectuals,' the Educated, libs, progs, Every-
one's gonna be Targeted by our crop of neofascists

for how Long
will the magas hold
out after they've discovered
Eggs're suddenly Unafforable and
jBiden's no Longer around for scapegoating
and their children sick and dying from our Wonderful

Profiteeing "Healthcare" system?

@31: Elon is not a Nazi. But he is dangerously trolling it.

@33

sure. &
Goebbels
wasn't a Nazi
Either, til 1921.

@33
Yes he is

@24 I never said it was the "main" thing. I said that Gaza was probably a significant factor that would drive turnout down, which was critical in swing states. It turns out that I was probably right according to the available data:

"Hammond said that the Democratic leadership erroneously thought it could gloss over core issues, such as anger over the Biden administration’s support for Israel’s war in Gaza, and a thirst for structural economic change which helped drive support for Trump. That’s a view backed by a YouGov poll released on Wednesday, which found that 29% of people who voted for Biden in 2020 but not for Harris last year said the Gaza war was the main reason why. Another 24% cited economic policy."
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/18/democrats-trump-michigan-swing-voters

Note that none of this forecast necessitated clairvoyance since both Democrats and independents were outraged by the conduct of the war, which your side repeatedly denied.

@23 How do you square the fact that if Harris had done what her intra-party critics suggested, she may have won?

Campaigning for victory may demand that the candidate listen to the party base

@32
Likely a while, I've found magats to be largely disconnected from reality.

The probable scenario will be; when trumps plans inevitably end in disaster, they'll blame all sorts of other people.

Trump, Musk, and their toadies will engage in stochastic terrorism, the magats will carry out a wave of terror against imagined enemies.

Be careful out there

“He’s not a nazi he is just openly espousing nazi beliefs and blew $44B ok twitter so nazis can use it to spread their propaganda” lol ok sure

To be fair we should be calling them neo-nazis but we’re not being graded on this

@24 and I never said support for "Hamas". You are turning out to be a slanderer as well. Shame on you

Yup. I have feared to learn & believe that whatever the drumpfster is saying he will do, he is going to do. And I really think he stays up at night reading how big a response he gets from the left as is concerned to how much they would disagree with his stated opinions. Then he decides on which policies to pursue based on the amount of the response. He said the left is the enemy to America and I know he means and believes this. If he had his way he would be a leader equal to Hitler and I bet he believes he could at least make it at par to what Putin has enjoyed early in his rise to power. He probably hopes to have Vance finish what he could not aspire to. Fuck the GOP, Fuck Trump and Fuck all his ball fondling cronies.

nyt:

“Here I am,”
Mr. Trump said
in his inaugural address.
“The American people have spoken.”

Mr. Trump is at once a president at the absolute peak of his powers yet also closer to a lame-duck period than any newly inaugurated predecessor in the modern era.

The great uncertainty is how that contradiction plays out — in terms of his ability to enact his agenda and to sustain his unmatched hold on Republican voters.

He is already racing to use his authority while he has it, with a raft of sweeping executive orders on immigration and energy, and is also unraveling diversity initiatives in the federal government.

He moved so swiftly that he began by signing his first orders at a post-inauguration rally, even before he had returned to the White House as president.

Mr. Trump’s honeymoon with the public could last, or his pursuit of so expansive an agenda so quickly could spark intense backlash.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/21/us/politics/trump-power-era.html

so:
National
Strike on Labor Day?

better
start Stockpiling
them torches & pitchforks

Comrades.

Welcome Marcus. But not sure it is only 1459 days to go, took Hitler only 53 days to destroy the Republic in Germany. How long before it is "President for Life"?

i personally cannot wait for the rise of TruthGPT

@42
Day Two
most likely

@30 oh well if the Anti Defamation League said so...

https://www.instagram.com/p/DFGLkMBx21N

Trump's compunction to always boldly sign with a Sharpie is related to the syndrome found afflicting men who must drive huge, LOUD, ostentatious trucks, cars, cycles, boats.........It's like wearing a banner that says, "I'm the current holder of the World's Tiniest Dick championship!!"

@10: uh huh. I did actually, AND the mealymouthed post from the ADL. Did YOU read the article I posted pointing out that actual Nazis recognized and celebrated the gesture? I mean they ought to know. Oh, and since you seem so confident why don't you just go ahead and repeat this "innocent" gesture at work today and see what people have to say about it.

he's
Gotta
get the
Military all
Sewn up 1st.

@8, Wrong campaign, wrong candidate, wrong issues. Not just with 20/20 hindsight.

They had polls at the time that said Gaza wasn't driving votes.

They had polls at the time that told them what issues the working class was motivated by, and what issues repelled them.

The Dems then doubled-down on the latter set of issues and ignored the former set of issues.

https://www.compactmag.com/article/how-the-left-helped-trump-win/

@19, Biologist (you know science) disagree that it is a social construct.

Throughout the pandemic The Stranger was right to say, "follow the science." They were correct then. It's correct now.

@26, "YouGov poll released on Wednesday, which found that 29% of people who voted for Biden in 2020 but not for Harris last year said the Gaza war was the main reason why."

That subset of voters is too small a number of voters to have altered the outcome.

“Community leaders in some
of the poorest parts of Saginaw,
where voter turnout dropped, repeat-
edly warned that the Harris campaign’s
focus on attacking Trump as unfit for office

and winning the support
of middle class white women,
particularly over abortion rights, was
alienating a large part of the Democratic constituency
simply struggling to pay the bills and looking for economic reform.”

--@averagebob on January 21, 2025 at 9:29 AM

nope ~ it’s Any comment
disparaging “our” limited liability
wholly-coporate-owned “democratic”
national committee’s albatrossed us wth

is why Kamala
LOST. To fucking
W H A T? THIS Guy?

&
the
‘d’nc.

But in FOUR
(maybe More!)
L O N G Y E A R S

we’ll have
Long since
Forgotten. like
where I put my keys

you haven't
seen them have
you mister Magoo?

The difference between sex and gender are broadly understood and accepted by scientists and laypeople alike without controversy. Literally no one is disputing that these terms describe different but related phenomena, well except for you and raindrop apparently. Even dumbasses like you should be able to understand the difference between your chromosomes and what pronouns you prefer when people refer to you.

https://medicine.yale.edu/news-article/what-do-we-mean-by-sex-and-gender/

@30 more on the ADL's shameful take:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2025/01/elon-musk-nazi-salute-trump-inauguration-adl-antidefamation-league.html

Just watched the clip of musk giving the salute and it looks even worse in context.

Yup. That was a hitler salute. Musk is a nazi.

I feel absolutely sick. Music, my beloved VW, cats, and all the wonderful people in my life are helping me maintain my sanity. Both my parents must be shaking their heads Up There that what was considered unthinkable back in the 20th Century---when we HAD a functioning democracy of checks and balances (THANK YOU, PRESIDENT FRANKLIN DELANO ROOSEVELT, JIMMY CARTER, BILL CLINTON, AND BARACK OBAMA ADMINISTRATIONS!!)---has become a lawless, dystopian, fascist trillionaire manhandled, terrorist free-for-all nightmare now.
MAGAs, stop laughing and wildly celebrating. Musk, Bezos, Putin, and their bought and paid for marionette sock puppet, Mein Trumpf, will be coming for you, too.

@3 and @47 Lissa: Elon Musk publicly made a Nazi salute during Mein Trumpf's inauguration.
Jesus wept.
If it's only a small consolation (for me, anyway), I'm grateful to no longer have a TV.
I know my parents, along with the Carters must be rolling in their graves.

for those not in the know, elon musk had an extensive post history on stormfront.org in the early 00s

@48 kristofarian: ......a Mein Trumpfist army of reprogrammed numb and faceless neofascist T-1000s. Jesus wept.

Everyone pardon Griz while I log out, go outside for some fresh air, take a walk, return inside later, write and play some music.

in the is He coming
for Me, too dept:

nyt:
‘Have Mercy’:
Bishop Makes Direct
Appeal to Trump From the Pulpit

President Trump was seated in the front pew when the bishop at a prayer service addressed him about L.G.B.T.Q. children and undocumented immigrants.

oodles more,
sacreligulously:
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/01/21/us/trump-executive-orders-news

‘Don’t Push it’
Thedonolde’s
Reputed to’ve
said under his
ghastly breath

Jesus’s gonna be
So freaking Pissed

he may even

Cancel
Xmas.

or So
I've heard.

@39 my bad. I guess I was confused since you have been parroting their talking points for the last year. Easy mistake to make.

and so Thedonolde’s
Reign of Horror
Begins:

‘A Betrayal, a
Mockery’: Police Express
Outrage Over Trump’s Jan. 6 Pardons

More than 150 officers from the Capitol Police and the D.C. police were injured when a pro-Trump mob stormed the Capitol four years ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/21/us/politics/jan-6-pardons-police.html

outrage fatigue’ll
be a Thing long
before Week
Three. any
bets?

d13r --
yet another,
equating Anti-
Genocide with Love
of Hamas. what a fucking

disgraceful
representative
for neoliberalism
(or is it neoconism?)

when ya just
Gotta Lie
you've

already Lost.

@63 One has to be an extremist to conflate expressing support for Palestinian human rights and supporting Hamas.

@64 is for @62

@57: You left out Truman, Kennedy, and LBJ.

@36: And yet another poll commissioned by the pro-Palestinian group with the deceptive, neutral-sounding name, Institute for Middle East Understanding. Oddly, this one shows the American voters were deeply opposed to America’s position. Go figure.

Yes, a constant stream of hateful accusations against the Democrats, backed up by material supplied by outfits such as this one, drove down turnout and helped deliver Trump back to the White House. Congratulations to all involved, and please enjoy your four years of Trump, for which you will receive the full measure of credit you’re refusing.

@64 your notion of Palestinian rights includes removing all Jews from the area and erasing Israel as a country and you’re calling me extremist?

@67 "Yes, a constant stream of hateful accusations against the Democrats, backed up by material supplied by outfits such as this one, drove down turnout"

That's a funny way of saying voters didn't like the candidate's policy positions

Saw a report from a source I trust of an ICE raid in Tumwater already yesterday.

@69: Negative campaigning works by driving down turnout, regardless of policy positions. It should be obvious that on most policy positions, Harris was a lot closer to the majority of citizens than Trump. So by constantly harping on the false accusation of “genocide,” by making a tiny single issue the focus of the campaign, etc., the resulting electorate of 2024 was much smaller than 2020. Please feel free to call that a triumph of democracy if you like.

@68 Now you are blatantly lying. I certainly never expressed the "notion" that "all Jews" should be removed from the area. On the contrary I said multiple times that I was opposed to inflicting hardship to anyone and that immigrant Jews should be allowed to remain there although it was beyond my control. As for Israel, I said that it was an ethno-state, which by definition and in practice considers non-Jews as second class citizens and thus is not a democracy. So I wasn't sure what should happen to it but given the state of affair I was for a one state solution at peace as it was before Zionism's claim to Palestine. I also said that claiming Israel had a right to exist was a denial of Palestinian right to self-determination as defined by the UN charter given the fact that many Palestinians have continuously occupied the area since the Bronze age. I don't see anything 'extremist' about any of it.

Yes, I said that conflating standing for human rights to support for Hamas is extremism. Don't you think so?

@72: “…many Palestinians have continuously occupied the area since the Bronze age. I don't see anything 'extremist' about any of it.”

Other than simply making up history is usually the province of extremists. The Palestinian Arab identity can be traced no further back than the late Ottoman Empire.

@67 It's a YouGov poll. It's tinfoil hat territory to claim that YouGov would somehow fudge a poll because a small organization commissioned it. You have no evidence that the methodology employed for this poll is faulty.

But we have gone all over this already multiple times, which of course won't prevent you from repeat it again, and again, ad infinitum like you do for everything else no matter the merit of it. As I said you are impervious to all logic except that dictated by your propaganda.

Genetic studies indicate a genetic affinity between Palestinians and other Levantine populations, as well as other Arab and Semitic groups in the Middle East and North Africa.[8][9] Historical records and later genetic studies indicate that the Palestinian people descend mostly from Ancient Levantines extending back to Bronze Age inhabitants of Levant.[10][a] They represent a highly homogeneous community who share one cultural and ethnic identity,[17][18][19] speak Palestinian Arabic and share close religious, linguistic, and cultural practices and heritage with other Levantines (e.g Syrians, Lebanese, and Jordanians)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians

"But we have gone all over this already multiple times, which of course won't prevent you from repeat it again, and again, ad infinitum like you do for everything else no matter the merit of it." --@ab

when one's up against The Wormtongue
or Thedonolde, for that matter, one
Must expect an Onslaught of Lies
and Half-truths, Omissions and
Gobs of pretzel 'logic,' in other
words Propaganda of the
Lowest Order. but, this
being tS, one must
Expect such rude
treatment from
those Determ-
ined to bring
tS Down.

it's just Another
Day in trumpftopia
they always say. bingo.

@74: Sharpen your Crayon, sit crisscross applesauce, and I’ll try to type as few syllables as slowly as I can.

A public opinion polling firm delivers the results the client wants. If the client is a reputable news organization or major political party or candidate, the desire will likely be for factual accuracy. If the client is a propaganda firm, like IMEU, the desire will be for material which supports their propaganda.

The deceptively-neutral name, IMEU, tells you right there they are trying to deceive you. You might want to make better use of that information.

@75: Nothing you quoted contradicts the modern Palestinian Arab identity arising in the late Ottoman Empire. The key phrase you’re missing in your quote is “…descend mostly from...” Many of us modern Americans “descend mostly from” Irish, Scots, French, Germans, Russians, Chinese, etc., but we are generally not citizens of those countries, nor do we identify as Irish, etc.

nyt:
"Trump
says tariffs
will start Feb. 1
on the country’s largest
trading partners: Canada, Mexico and China."

oooh, the trumpftax's
about to Shock the
USofA! the level &
Volume of his mis-
deeds's about to
Overwhelm us
keeping us on
our Heels, con-
Fused and ter-
rified, neighb-
ors Arrested
children sud-
denly Orph-
ans the world turned Upside down.

Deep Fakes, a i (did🛴🔨get un-
Plugged?) -generated Lies no
one'll Know what's Real and
what's just Pretend. thee
Perfect Scenario for a
tyrannical toddler to
shut US down for
like ever. buckle
up, Buttercup:

the
Lying
Liars're
Ascending
the Golden Throne

& when They flush
five Ten FIFTEEN!
times, they can
do a LOT of
Damage.

Gleefully!

"I was for a one state solution at peace as it was before Zionism's claim to Palestine. I also said that claiming Israel had a right to exist was a denial of Palestinian right to self-determination"

First, it wasn't at peace. Arabs have been trying to exterminate Jews in that area continually. That is part of the reason why Israel was created. The British realized as do most of the us that embrace reality that the Arabs in the area will never be satisfied living side by side with Jews. So if you claim that Israel existence is a denial of Palestinian rights the logical conclusion to that is Israel shouldn't exist. If you want to try to wrap this up in subterfuge and ambiguous context go ahead but the bottom line remains Israel is gone and Jews living in the area will be slowly chased away or exterminated as they have been in the rest of the Muslim world. Kinda sounds like Hamas main goal to me but what do I know.

@79 no, European Jews flooded into Mandatory Palestine and started terrorizing the inhabitants and also the British. The Haganah and Irgun were basically the Hamas of that time. People who either don't know or won't acknowledge that history have no credibility on this subject.

@77 "Many of us modern Americans “descend mostly from” Irish, Scots, French, Germans, Russians, Chinese, etc., but we are generally not citizens of those countries, nor do we identify as Irish, etc."

Yes but Irish people descended from historical Irish people who live in Ireland certainly identify as Irish. And as we've seen they also don't take kindly to occupying forces. I can't imagine any people who would.

@79: Even funnier, the “peace” he’s referring to, to the extent it ever really existed, was the result of the late Ottoman Empire’s enforcing diktats upon the helpless Palestinians, diktats intended to strengthen Ottoman Imperial control over their conquered territory of Palestine. There was no intended benefit to Palestinian Arabs, Jews, Christians, or anyone else in Palestine.

Then, after celebrating nonconsensual Imperial control of a conquered territory, he expects anyone to take seriously his “settler-colonialist” argument on that same land. Priceless!

@76: I did you the favor of pointing out an intentional deceit someone is trying to perpetuate upon you, and you respond by name-calling me as deceptive. (And yet, somehow, you still seem to expect someone to believe you…) You’re welcome.

@81: First, there are quite a few modern residents of the island of Ireland whose ancestry there goes back centuries, and describe themselves as loyal subjects of the United Kingdom. They would not take kindly to your description of their government as an occupying force.

Second, for both governments on Irish soil today, citizenship in no way depends upon whether one’s ancestors lived on the island 3,000 years ago. (If the Irish as a whole were to choose to live under one government, I doubt very much they would add 3,000 years of ancestry to their citizenship requirement.)

Third, you might want to learn the difference between “descended from,” and “are.”

@83 "Second, for both governments on Irish soil today, citizenship in no way depends upon whether one’s ancestors lived on the island 3,000 years ago."

Right that only works for Israel. For all those Jews who lived in Poland or wherever but, unlike the Americans you referenced, still identified with the region their ancestors lived thousands of years before. Which in your mind gave them the inalienable right to move back there and take the land from its inhabitants.

@80 why were the Jews in Europe? Was it because they were chased out of the lands where they had homes and lives by Muslims? There is a difference between immigrants and refugees. Jews were definitely the latter and were not exactly welcomed in many of the countries they were forced to settle in.

@80 reduces to, “I preferred the Ottoman Empire’s discriminatory policies in Palestine to the British Empire’s somewhat-less-discriminatory policies in Palestine, especially because the British allowed more Jews.”

That you’re seriously using such a message in support of local control for Palestinian Arabs now just increases the silly meter considerably. (The anti-Jewish part of your message isn’t exactly a great look, either.)

For the whole “who’s on [the land] first?” bit, who cares? Homo Sapiens evolved in Africa. We are indigenous to Africa, and only to Africa. Everywhere else, we are either immigrants, or descended from immigrants, whose ancestors departed from Africa. Calling any humans not in Africa “indigenous” is a social construct, not a statement of scientific fact.

Any argument based upon social-construction claims of being “indigenous” will ultimately rest upon, and therefore be no more valid than, whatever arbitrary date is chosen to earn the “indigenous” mark. Wrangling that date is not merely pointless, but likely to devolve into outright fabrications, such as the claim to 3,000-year-old Palestinian Arab identity when the Arabic language developed later.

@84

it's
just
wormmy.

baffling,
ain't he?
he can Fix
a narrative
Any narrative
twist it This Way
and That and the
'Beauty' is, the Reich
Wing Nutjobs'll ALWAYS
come out On Top. surely He'll
have His Place, Too, in eltrumpfster's

House of Horrors:
like a sub-sub-minister in the
Ministry of Truth (& Punishments), eg.

@85 you think they were "chased out" by MUSLIMS? Wow you really have no idea what you're talking about about. Google Jewish Diaspora then check when Islam started.

@86 you're the one who's relying on "indigenous" arguments to attempt to justify Jews flooding into and colonizing the Levant in the first half of the 20th century. Your argument is so confused you don't even know which way is up anymore.

@89: No, I’m not. You want the guy who believes in 3,000 year-old-Palestinians. ;-)

UN Resolution 181 provided legal authority for founding a Jewish State and an Arab State in the expiring British Mandate of Palestine. The Palestinian Jews accepted this, founding the modern State of Israel. The Palestinian Arabs rejected it, choosing to decide the issue by force of arms. Their choosing war instead of peace led directly to the current situation.

“…Jews flooding into and colonizing the Levant in the first half of the 20th century.”

Well, specifically Palestine, but yes, the British Empire had a more permissive policy on Jewish immigration into Palestine than had the Ottoman Empire. Maybe if the Ottoman Empire had been less restrictive, Jews might have moved there earlier? Would that have been better for WTF your objection is? Because right now, you sound either like an American who somehow believes immigration should not be allowed generally, or a straight-up anti-Jewish bigot specifically.

@88 yes, so no Jews lived in this area post the Roman times? c'mon, the diaspora certainly was a major blow for Israel but many Jews continued to live throughout the region until they were pushed out by their Muslim neighbors. Feel free to google Jews populations in the middle east. Since I know you're too lazy / don't care here is the response you get back

"In 1945, there were approximately 866,000 Jews living in communities throughout the Arab world. Today, there are fewer than 10,000."

Why do you think that is?

@91 look dude just admit you thought the Persian Empire were Muslims and we can move on.

And why do I think the population of Jews in the Arab world diminished significantly from 1945 to now? Hmm what a mystery, what could have happened shortly after 1945 that would explain exactly where those Jews went? Hmmm

@90 "but yes, the British Empire had a more permissive policy on Jewish immigration into Palestine than had the Ottoman Empire. Maybe if the Ottoman Empire had been less restrictive, Jews might have moved there earlier?"

Besides the fact your first statement is wrong, and the vast majority of Jewish immigration to Mandatory Palestine was illegal (main reason they launched a Hamas-like terror campaign against the British) the idea that Jews patiently waited 1300 years for the perfect time to immigrate is laughable on its face.

You guys should quit while you're behind.

@92: "And why do I think the population of Jews in the Arab world diminished significantly from 1945 to now? Hmm what a mystery, what could have happened shortly after 1945 that would explain exactly where those Jews went? Hmmm"

Some were expelled, some chose to leave. Enough of them settled in Israel that even to this day, a majority of Israelis are, or are descended from, persons who had already resided in the region -- not by persons who had arrived from Europe. "Today, the descendants of Jews who immigrated to Israel from other Middle Eastern lands (known as Mizrahi Jews and Sephardic Jews) constitute more than half of the total Israeli population." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world)

"...the British Empire had a more permissive policy on Jewish immigration into Palestine than had the Ottoman Empire."

If that's the statement you're calling wrong, I seriously wonder what your definition of right is. In the final decades of the Ottoman Empire, Jews were so severely restricted from traveling to Palestine, even pilgrimages to Jerusalem were highly regulated:

'After a further exchange with [local authority in] Jerusalem, it was decided to close Palestine to all Jewish business men, on the grounds that the Capitulations, which permitted Europeans to trade freely within the Ottoman Empire, applied exclusively to areas 'appropriate for trade'- the Council of State did not consider that Palestine was such an area. Henceforth, only Jewish pilgrims could enter Palestine. Their passports were to be properly visaed by Ottoman Consuls abroad; on arrival they were to hand over a deposit guaranteeing their departure, and they were to leave after thirty days.' (https://ismi.emory.edu/documents/Readings/Mandel,%20Neville%20J.%20Ottoman%20Policy.pdf)

After the British Empire took over Palestine, the Balfour Declaration envisioned a Jewish homeland in Palestine. That difference alone shows how much less restrictive the British were, compared to the Ottomans.

"...the idea that Jews patiently waited 1300 years for the perfect time to immigrate is laughable on its face."

The anti-Jewish discrimination in Palestine by the late Ottoman Empire has been very well-documented. Yet you seem surprised Jews moved there immediately after it ended. Perhaps you need to read more history?

@92 of course I don’t think that but that won’t stop you from continuing to ignore reality. What is more likely. Jews left everything they had built behind to go torment some people they never met or faced with increasing hostility and violence from theocratic authoritarian regimes they left behind communities, homes and businesses they had built to find somewhere safe and tolerant. Certainly some left for the dream of Israel but many more left for the latter reason. This of course still exists today which is why Israel is needs to exist as a country and a one state solution is a death sentence for them.

when AIPAC
pays you bytheword
and Penalizes when anti-
Zionists score even One point

do Not be 'surprised'
when commentariattators
unleash massive word salads
supporting Israel's Ongoing Genocide

they're even getting
a little Help from
their Friends:

from the Intercept:

Trump Halts Sanctions on
Israeli Settlers, Threatens
to Seize Assets of War
Crimes Investigators

the Carnage
Continues,
Unabated

what on Earth
happened to your
sockbott, Wormtongue?

did AIPAC
take "him"
back? what
a Blow, eh?

@92: “…vast majority of Jewish immigration to Mandatory Palestine was illegal…”

So, now you’re objecting to persons fleeing the Holocaust? Seriously?

We all know Horseshoe Theory rules your world, but this is getting ugly, even by the dismal standards of the Stranger’s supportive commenters.