Looking forward to the debate review from our resident Trump concern troll nekrasova. Looking forward to hearing how the debate was a complete and utter disaster for Kamala Harris and will spell the demise of her campaign.

Just remember, folks, nekrasova wants to tell us:
* Democrats should be demoralized.
* A second Trump term won't be so bad.
* I'm a Harris voter just ilke the rest of you. Otherwise, why would you bother listening to me?

Business analysts have ruined the world. Why make Starbucks a nice place to be when you can sell blue energy drinks to high school kids, and not hurt for profits? Pay no attention to this apology tour, and find a better coffee shop.

The Wall Street Journal’s take: “Republicans expressed frustration and offered second-guessing in the aftermath of Donald Trump’s televised showdown with Kamala Harris, complaining that the former president had faced more scrutiny, as Trump cast doubt on whether he would agree to another debate.” 🤣

Ah yes.
The debate.
Who changed their vote as a result?
Anyone?
Nothing more than weak ass performance art.

The Spotted Owls are probably fucked no matter how many Barred Owls get shot.

JD Vance is such a massive tool it boggles the mind. I hate that he'll be a fixture of the Senate like massive tools Johnson, Scott, Kennedy, Hawley and Cruz.

Why the fuck is Harris being grilled about Fracking over and over? It's too fucking late to ban it.

@3 No one needs to watch the debate. Anyone who supports Trump the way Reichert does is unfit to be dog catcher, much less governor. There's a reason Washington hasn't had a Republican governor since John Spellman. Reichert is just way too far right to have a chance.

Democrats and Harris are dumb about fracking. There is no majority for fracking in Pennsylvania andalmost all of those who are for it are already voting for Donald Trump. In the meantime, youth is opposed to fracking and would gladly commit even further to Harris if she didn't flop around because pro-fossil fuel Democrats like Shapiro told her it was the way to go.

Same reasoning hold regarding Palestine but the difference is there are overwhelming majorities of Democrats and independents who are for an arm embargo. It's downright fucking incompetence just because I have hard time imagining it's malicious.

"Here’s the truth from someone who actually lives in Pennsylvania. Most folks, especially in areas like Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and their suburbs where many voters reside, don’t really talk about fracking — certainly not as much as the big issues like the economy or abortion rights. And when we do discuss it, many Pennsylvanians — perhaps even a majority — oppose fracking, because we don’t want to prolong the climate destruction of fossil fuels, or because folks who live near these fracking pads are sick of the smell, the noise, and the threat to their health.

A 2021 poll commissioned by the pro-sustainability Ohio River Valley Institute (ORVI) found just 31% of Pennsylvanians support continued fracking here, and that a majority want the process to end either immediately (25%) or see it phased out over time (30%). Other surveys show the state more evenly divided, but unfettered support for unconventional gas drilling doesn’t top 50%.

One reason for the split is that the economic benefits to Pennsylvania that are cited again and again by TV pundits just haven’t materialized outside of just one or two of the state’s 67 counties. A series of studies have shown that fracking is not a major job category here, that the number of new hires has never matched the industry’s overblown promises, and that counties with fracking activity have mostly underperformed the state and national economy.

“I find the whole discussion” — around fracking — “pretty deeply frustrating,” Sean O’Leary, a senior researcher for ORVI, told me this week. “I think most Pennsylvanians are at best ambivalent about fracking as a technology.” And he thinks a fair amount of the public support for fracking is reinforced by politicians — including Democrats like Gov. Josh Shapiro — constantly overstating the economic rewards.

This means that when it comes to the presidential race, the so-called experts are getting the issue completely bass-ackward. Think about it: The voters who see fossil fuels as a gift from God and nod along to Republicans’ “Drill, baby, drill” chants are in Trump’s back pocket already. But Harris’ resolute endorsement of fracking — minus a more concrete plan to end America’s addiction to oil and gas — could slow her momentum with young voters who rank climate change as a top issue and have been drifting back to the Democrats since Biden’s withdrawal.

But the myth that fracking is overwhelmingly popular in Pennsylvania has become a feedback loop between politicians — some of them heavily funded by oil-and-gas campaign dollars, some of them seeking the endorsements of trade unions that have bought into the job-creation hype — and a lazy news media. Since fracking resurfaced as a campaign issue, reporters for outlets like CNN or the Washington Post have flocked to places like Washington County, where the ORVI found the economy has performed somewhat better than other heavily fracked counties — partly because of exurban Pittsburgh job growth unrelated to fossil fuels — and hunt down the local bar owner who’s slinging pitchers to parched well workers."

https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/kamala-harris-fracking-pennsylvania-20240905.html

averagebob @9 @10, please forgive my nosiness. But would you be so kind as to let us know the username you previously posted on Slog as before your arrival as "averagebob" in May of this year?

Maybe somebody else out there has some idea about averagebob the way some folks do about the user NotMyopic who has recently graced us with his presence.

ALF is trending.

Averagebob dear, If any "youth" is going to stay home because of Kamala Harris's position on fracking, they're idiots, and they deserve every bad thing that would happen to them and the country.

There's one good thing to say about fracking: it killed coal as an electrical generation source (in part because of the lack of regulation). I fully expect that ten years from now, fracking and and the whole natural gas market will be going the way of coal due to technological advances in battery storage. (Hint: it doesn't involve Lithium)

I just don't get the impulse in some to think that we are not going to see rapid and dramatic technological changes, especially since that's been the case for the last couple of centuries.

And anyone who stays home or votes third part because Harris's position on Palestine doesn't pass their purity test is doing their part to make sure that Gaza will become the land of seaside resorts that trump's handlers and family want it to be - and the West Bank will be next.

13, exactly. Trump has outright said he'll let Netanyahu "finish the job," and we also know he'll let Putin finish the job, which, as Kamala correctly pointed out, means he'll move onto Poland next. I find it strange that young people who make Gaza their #1 issue seem to have no similar passion over the women being tortured by Republican policies in this country, or about the thousands of immigrant children who were kidnapped by the Trump Administration and taken from their families, many of whom are still lost because they never bothered to track them. Or the 40% of COVID deaths that were determined to have likely been preventable if the Trump administration hadn't completely botched their response, or the millions of people who lost their health insurance under Trump, leading to thousands of deaths.

I understand that Gaza is an important issue, but every time I hear a privileged young person obnoxiously declare that this is why they won't vote for Harris, I want to scream.

Ms Vel-DuRay is 100% correct that we have fracking to thank for the collapse of coal.

The owl thing is a total fiasco. Spotted owls are vanishing due to loss of habitat. I imagine very few private landowners will let FWS owl hunters onto their property, so the barred owls have that going for them. Niche vacancies created by barred owl hunting will be filled by ... more barred owls.

averagebob @9 @10, I'd love to hear your response to me @11 and Catalina @13.

Also, yes, voting against Harris 'for Palestine' will only accelerate the development of Trump/Kushner Gaza seaside resorts.

@11: Guessing it's an incarnation of Professor Hiztory

@14: why would Putin go into Poland? It was a good debate line, but it doesn't seem a likely target for a second Russian front.

Poland is already in NATO, just like the Baltic states. There aren't Soviet-imported Russian speakers there, which was his rationale for annexing Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk.

And he's already got the Kaliningrad/Konigsberg exclave, which Stalin took as a war spoil.

He was probably planning on having Ukraine be a vassal state like Belarus or Tajikistan. He'll likely settle for the annexed territories, as Ukraine reclaiming them militarily seems a remote possibility.

@9, "overwhelming majorities of Democrats and independents who are for an arm embargo."

Citation that includes "embargo" or "ban all arms sales to Israel," and numbers?

Or is "overwhelming numbers" just your anecdotal sense based on talking to your bubble?

How does the issue poll among the 100k swing voters in a few states that will pick our next President? How high does the issue rank in their list of priorities? If its 20 the on their list, it won't influence their vote. Higher ranked issues will.

If anyone, anyone at all no matter who they are or where they are from or what their personal situation is votes for Trump there is only one reason, they are exactly like him and/or fully support all of the sewage that flows out of his mouth.

@10,

"A 2021 poll commissioned by the pro-sustainability Ohio River Valley Institute (ORVI) found just 31% of Pennsylvanians support continued fracking here, and that a majority want the process to end either immediately (25%) or see it phased out over time (30%)."

How does it poll among truly undecided swing voters in PA that will hand the state to Harris or Trump? Knowing that would actually be meaningful. The data you provide from the general population, not so much.

@19, Because Putin has said he will restore Russia's 1917 borders.

Everybody decided his statements about Ukraine were mere bluster, to play to his base within Russia. Care to roll the dice on bluster again?

What makes you think NATO will exist in a Trump Administration? One of the reasons MAGA is so dangerous.

"If CM Cathy Moore ignores the 55 orgs opposed to SOAP and prostitution loitering, including 44 that testified opposition today with only 4 or so testifying in favor, if she ignores that and passes this bill, it will be absolutely baffling"

The only thing the Stranger likes more than giving clicks to Elon Musk's Right-Wing Conspiracy-Theory Mill is declaring advocacy groups' statements should count for more than actual citizens' votes in real elections. (This goes double if those advocacy groups stand to get money from the government, if the government follows the advocacy groups' advice.)

Operation Frequent Wind @18, Professor Hizstory is a pretty good guess actually. Here's the interesting thing about averagebob's comments:
https://www.thestranger.com/users/79529046/averagebob/comments

They consistently come across as a caricature of a doctrinaire contemporary progressive who has no interest in engaging and persuading, only in enraging and provoking. It smells like a deliberate disinformation effort, albeit homegrown, like there's no way this individual sincerely holds these beliefs.

I'm reading Max Solomon's comment @19. I wish I had time to respond in full because there's a lot of misunderstanding baked in there--about the Baltics, about eastern Ukraine, about Putin's intentions, about our own interests--so just one point. Regarding "Ukraine reclaiming (the annexed territories) militarily seems a remote possibility"--I think that's entirely contingent on our presidential election. And even then, the Ukrainians don't need to reclaim all the current annexed territories, and all in the next four years.

A majority of Americans of any political persuasion support an arms embargo with Israel, and the numbers are higher for Biden voters, particularly younger voters who have been instrumental in winning elections for democrats. People in this country tend to quickly tire of the wars we wage, fund, and instigate and Gaza is no different.

Regarding fracking, the majority of people experience it as an environmental nuisance that poisons the water supply, particularly in states where it’s common, but capital greases the gears of our politics and the interests of the industry will always win out over the common man. Harris would probably gain more votes than she lost by sticking to her guns but there is no reality where a lucrative industry is banned, even with supermajority support. There is not an artful way for a politician to say this even though everyone knows it’s true.

CM Moore appears to be almost as dumb as she is emotional volatile. Her achieving this position after having been a judge is a real indictment of both our local political and legal systems. Hopefully a serious candidate runs against her next time so we can put a Stay Out of City Hall Area order on her.

@13 Even idiots vote so you'd better be sure they vote for you because they'll be no valid reason later to complain about idiots who voted wrong

"coal versus natural gas (methane)"

"Methane emissions are at new highs. It could put us on a dangerous climate path

Human activities such as farming livestock, coal mining, extracting and handling natural gas, growing rice in paddies, and putting organic waste in landfills contribute about 65% of all methane emissions. Of this, agriculture (livestock and rice paddies) contributes 40%, fossil fuels 36%, and landfills and wastewater 17%.

Methane emissions from fossil fuels are now comparable to livestock emissions. The fastest growing contributors are from landfill and fossil fuels (think natural gas escaping during extraction and processing)."

https://phys.org/news/2024-09-methane-emissions-highs-dangerous-climate.html

"technological changes,"

There is no evidence that the energy transition is actually a transition. So far we are only adding clean energy to the existing energy mix. Historically we haven't actually witnessed a transition either: for example our use of wood increased after the advent of coal energy. Coal use has decreased in Western nations but it has increased in Asia that produces most of the stuff we consume. Exporting our production is not equivalent to reducing our carbon footprint

Failing to stop enabling a genocide is hardly failing a purity test. Your statement is pretty outrageous.

averagebob @28, maybe we can make this multiple choice. Are you?
A. Professor Hiztory
B. Roger the Shrubber
C. another former commenter
D. none of the above (I'm new here)

“The reality is that the public is far more in favor of stopping arms sales to Israel than opposed,” Yousef Munayyer, head of the Palestine/Israel Program at Arab Center Washington D.C., told The Intercept. He pointed to a June poll from CBS that showed 61 percent of all Americans said the U.S. should not send weapons to Israel, including 77 percent of Democrats and nearly 40 percent of Republicans.

Poll results have been consistent for months.

https://theintercept.com/2024/09/10/polls-arms-embargo-israel-weapons-gaza/

@ 28, and how would Trump stop enabling the genocide? He said he'd do the exact opposite. Beyond that specific issue, Trump's policies have already killed, tortured, and harmed millions of people in this country. Why would I risk him being elected over a single issue, when doing so would only worsen the issue I claim to care about?

@32 I am not disagreeing with you and I encourage everyone in swing states to vote for Harris because she is the much better candidate but it would be a lot easier to generate enthusiasm for her candidacy among youth and Arab Americans if she did the right thing for Gaza. I'll go even further it's counterproductive for her not to twist Netanyahu's arm really hard at this point in time.

"[ab] who
has no interest in
engaging and persuading,
only in enraging and provoking."

the reich wing is often
Provoked. shall we
be Sad?

& why this fascination
with ab's identity?

what's the Up-
side?

if it's
the Perfessor
he's damn Good
at Transformation

(our dear Perfessor
headed South for
more Better
Climes.).

@33

better work on
your Enraging
dude. good
Great com-
ments.

Kamala's
gotta get
Pragmatic.

bibi appears
treacherous af
would he use the
nukular option merely
to stay the fuk outta Prison?

does that mean
Jesus might be
coming back?

good Luck,
Jesus (you're
gonna Need it).

20 or 30,000
going straight
to Heaven one way
the 7 or 10 or however
many Billions there are of us

so

What the Fuck
happens to US?
we without Caves

good
luck?

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation-politics/pundits-said-harris-won-the-debate-undecided-voters-werent-so-sure/

Facepalm!

Are you kiddin' me?

@27
Regardless of policy differences, it is pretty messed up to label Cathy Moore as “emotionally volatile”. That is an extremely sexist trope. The hypocrisy is strong with you, young jedi.

Also, given your comment history, I am not sure you’re an arbiter on emotional stability. Glass houses and all.

@38 https://publicola.com/2024/04/30/im-losing-my-temper-moore-accuses-morales-of-calling-her-council-colleagues-evil-corporate-shills/